Jan 9 / Ozymandias

Kaz speaks Kutargisms regarding PS3

It's not Kaz speaking up and defending the box that surprises me; it's that the statements are just so obviously wrong that I can't believe he actually thinks people will take him seriously. You can go over to IGN to read all the text, but I'll highlight a couple of fun quotes. Won't even comment on them beyond simply posting as you can fill in your own commentary at this point.

"I have heard many people say our competitors' systems are just as powerful as the PS3. That simply is not true," said Hirai. "No other next generation entertainment system pushes the envelope on advanced technology like PS3.

<snip>

Hirai said that PS3 titles like Resistance: Fall of Man already utilize some 16GBs of storage space on Blu-ray Disc. "That game simply wouldn't be possible on any other system without using multiple discs."

<snip>

He also seemed to suggest that had Sony gone the Nintendo route and released a marginally more powerful console, the launch would have gone much smoother. "A worldwide launch for any console is quite ambitious. In fact, it has never been done before.

platinumbatto

yeah. what is intereseting. is that Gears of war is better thatn Resistance and yetstill it fits a dvd. hmm Am i missing something her. Was ther horrible fix quick solution code in Resistance or was resistance including 1- 10 mb texture maps to their game. well what ever the case is. DOA4 looks prettier than anything on the ps3 at the moment. Crazy Kaz just has to stop talking . I think it’s a trend that once you become president you must talk trash. Wussup with Kutaragi.. Silence.. ohh. And how about this whole thing stating that Bluray is the winner as far as i am concerned 80% of people that have a ps3 still don’t have a blu ray movie on their system. Where is sony getting their facts from. Seriously. anyone…
Trellium

"Legends in their own minds" probably fits Sony leadership more than anyone on earth.

Speaking of which, is Europe not part of the planet anymore? How come Sony had a terribly difficult world-wide launch that excluded most of the world, yet both their competitors managed to at least include Europe. Launching in Japan (home country) and the US has been done by others before.
Kosher Infidel

I posted this response on Kotaku this am…

I tell people I’m ubiquitous,

but that sh*t is ficticious,

I’m Kazalicious

K-to-the-A-to-the-Z-to-the-alicious…

He is bat-sh*t crazy.
platinumbatto

sorry about the spelling an errors in some of the stuff i said. Just that when Sony speaks i just get mad. Everything they say is based on hope of a better future. It’s like a kid waiting for an ice cream truck that is never gonna show up. onc 6pm passes they make more stupid comments to try and hide the depression in them. Sony is just a waste.. well atleast the playstation department. and whoever that gave the ps3 controller that award needs to be slapped. better yet i think the award commison just lost all it’s credibility to the public.. I have to say that ther is only one thing that impressed me with sony. The new Bravia TV’s they look hot and athis added features are just gonna keep their price up in the air. well i think i will go get a westing house or better yet a Samsung.
Name is not required

no wonder why Blue Dragon had to come out on 3 discs. why microsoft why??? microsoft should have released 360 with HD DVD so that games fit on dual layer HD DVD disc.

the only reason why 360 lacks so many things compared to ps3 (lack of disc storage, all important HDMI) is because they didnt have much market share compared to sony and were forced to cut prices low. whilst wii seems to be a perfect second console and that ps3 has most decent exclusives, i can only see 360 being third best
GammaZero

Him being not so bright is Good news for Xbox 360
Aedrin

"whilst wii seems to be a perfect second console and that ps3 has most decent exclusives, i can only see 360 being third best"

Too bad that the list 360, Wii and then PS3 right now. Both console numbers and titles.

And don’t tell me about console shortages, as there are PS3s available everywhere, but not a single Wii.
Anonymous

while I obviously disagree on things like the world launch never been done before (hi, I am from europe, you know, the 3rd world!) and the ps3 being overwhelming superior to the 360 (although I think can be slightly superior if ever used properly – which I doubt) I think he has a point in the disc space matter (not necessarily refering to Resistance – Futile game). I believe the DVD9 might be a bottleneck for the 360 in 1 – 2 years time for certain core games… This reminds me a bit of DC vs PS2 when sony shipped their machine with a DVD drive at that time. Sure you could play Shenmue on the DC on 4 discs, but I think we all would have prefered to have been able to play it on a single disc. I never see a more space solution as anything wrong (although that doesnt mean I support Blue-Ray at all).
http://blogs.clearscreen.com/kartones Kartones

worldwide launch? what did he smoke? I live in spain and at least until march PS3 won’t come here. And wooo, if it’s 600$ in USA, it will be 600 euro, not 600$ CONVERTED TO the euro money. They take us for fools.

Six-axis equals six-s**t. no vibration. why not paying the patent? Sony must have tons of money…

Games are 1st-gen, ok, so quality may not be impressive… but after YEARS of saying that Cell is amazing, that PS3 would be the revolution in gaming, that it was incredible… all for having almost the same quality games right now?

For 600$ You can get almost an XBox 360 and a Wii. Thats double REAL fun, not smoke and chatting.

It’s just better in the HD and optical media. For the rest, is wasting a lot of money in something that right now isn’t worth it.

Oh, and I LOVE Metal Gear and Final Fantasy. I’ve got a PSOne, PS2 and PSP. Is just I’m quite dissapointed and angry with how things are going with PS3. I now have a XBox 360 and I’m enjoying it a lot.
Joseph

Quote 1#

If the PS3 is more powerful than the XBOX 360 is has yet to show it. I have a feeling that the PS3 will shine in processing areas other than graphics but that is only spectulation.

Sony should be quite until something,even a demo, can prove that point.

Quote #2

100% True. there is NO argument that can be made that this is false. Resistance is a bigger game and I have heard longer than Gears of War. It would take many more disks to do the same on the Wii or 360.

Quote #3

True. Who the heck would argue that using off the shelf technology would give you a worse launch.

I can understand quote #1 being trotted out as typical Sony bluster without proof.

However quotes 2&3 are damn well right.
Joseph

I guess the language in quote #3 can be taken in 2 ways.

In one you assume he is talking about a PS3 worldwide launch.

In another he is downplaying the lack of a PS3 worldwide launch.

I’d tend to think it’s number two since Sony seems pretty aware that the Eurpoe launch didn’t happen yet. You get to save face if none of your competitors could do it either.

Of course in a flame bait thread such as this #1 will be the chosen interpetation.
Scott

Joseph,

In regards to #2, R:FOM is padded with mostly needles Full Motion Video. That is why it takes up more space than a standard DVD-9. The game itself could fit on a DVD-9.
Scott

Oh…and R:FOM doesn’t use the same advanced compression techniques that are used on the 360.
John-Paul

At this point Sony has taken the George W. Bush just keep on lying approach.

I find it interesting that Castlevania SotN, which once filled an entire CD, has now been downsized to fit Microsoft’s 50Mb arcade cap. Music compression being one reason it was doable.

Eh, anyway, who flippin cares if Blue Dragon has 3 disks *old man voice* in my day… we had games like Final Fantasy that had 4 disks… and you know what we LIKED IT too.

Is it really that big a deal to swap disks. Right now game quality says it all, I don’t care what format they use.

Sony dude makes it sound like the games will be LIMITED without the holy blue ray.. it’s just crazy talk.

Hey next announcement from that guy: The PSP is kicking the DS’s *** in the magical land of Narnia.
Joseph

Well I guess if you strip out the extra graphical nicities then you don’t need a higher capicity format.

In the end you can argue that CD’s are all that you will ever need or 64meg cartridges with the enough compression are sufficient.

I remember that wolfnstein 3d fit on a single 720kb disk.

It’s always stupid to argue against a higher capacity format when it comes to computers.

Why not just say the xbox harddrive at 20 GB is more than big enough?

If gears of war was to big what were you going to do? Swap out DVD’s in the middle of a map? Install the game to the hard drive? For games like that they can NEVER make the game bigger than the format, without a harddrive install.

You can argue that all that spiffy new space is more than you want to pay for but it is foolishness to state that 25gb is more space than any game developer will need in the next 5 years.
RomeoDude

I love how Sony talks so much talk without much to back it up…. what about that so-called emmy?
Robin

What is wrong with any of these three quotes?

Regarding technical specifications, well, you can either:-

A) concede that the Playstation 3 has a technical specification in advance of any other console on the market, but point out this advantage comes at the expense of hardware cost, or that it’s diluted by less friendly development tools ("power isn’t everything"- which is the line Bach, Moore & co. seem to have adhered to throughout the last year), or

B) turn around and state that this is ‘wrong’ with no justification.

If B) isn’t just disingenuous bluster, why have your employers ever bothered with option A) ?

At least you’ve stopped putting caveats about your impartiality in front of your playground-level sniping.

If what you’re working on is so great then let it speak for itself. Constantly kicking the tyres of the opposition doesn’t project a confident image, any more so than when developers get publically hissy about bad reviews.
http://www.klio.org/marks/ Mike Kozlowski

To take the three in order:

1. This may be crazy (and if you actually look in detail at how those SPEs work, it probably is), but it’s what basically every single reviewer says. "It doesn’t look great now, but give it a year, and developers will start to take advantage of its unprecedented power." I assume that a lot of people just listen to Sony, but I suspect there’s a large amount of "Well, it’s $600, so it MUST be better" in there.

2. Well, that’s true, I guess? I mean, if it uses 16GB, it uses 16GB. Sure, they could probably have fit it into 9GB with minimal effort, but that’s effort they didn’t have to go to. (But why is it so big? Is it all FMV-heavy, like JRPGS?)

3. This is 100% inarguably true. Did the 360 ship to Antarctica on launch day? It did not. QED.
Zach St. John

"Did the 360 ship to Antartica on launch day?"

Darn Microsoft for leaving the eskimos out in the cold!

Darn them!

lol
Joseph

Romeodude:

Sony won many emmys with 2 for video games

1 for the XMB interface

1 (according to destroid.com) for the design of the dual shock 2.

Those "so called" emmys exist.

so the joke goes

"Ha ha Sony screwed up.. they can’t even keep track of which of their products win awards. I bet they alphabetize their tropy case wrong"
Joseph

Romeodude:

Sony won many emmys with 2 for video games

1 for the XMB interface

1 (according to destroid.com) for the design of the dual shock 2.

Those "so called" emmys exist.

so the joke goes

"Ha ha Sony screwed up.. they can’t even keep track of which of their products win awards. I bet they alphabetize their tropy case wrong"
Andy

The PS3 has the cell processor, bluray, wireless internet built in, bigger hard drive. Yes, I think that pushes the envelope more than the 360 has, and as the cell processor is an advancement over the PowerPC processor of the 360, then I believe he is right in saying so.

I do not know if RFOM has all the languages and localisation stuff on the one disk, and if so, then I can believe that it could not be done on DVD. Isn’t it true that there were less launch games available in Japan for the 360 due to delays in localisation, needing many different disk versions for the different regions?

The Xbox 360 did not hold a worldwide launch, depending on your definition of ‘worldwide’ of course. There were many countries which did not receive the 360 until the March following the launch, and a simple search on wikipedia for xbox 360 launch can confirm this.

I would rather have heard your comments Andre, so what are they?
Jason

For anyone wondering why Resistance is 16GBs, its because it includes UNCOMPRESSED 7.1 and 5.1 PCM audio. For those of you lucky enough to have a reciever that can decode PCM, you’re in for an incredible treat with richer and fuller sound then any other game currently on the market. Right now its the only game that even supports it, and the size of the Blu-Ray disc allowed them to include it. Also don’t forget that they include all languages on the disc and all cinematics/voice overs in those languages. Remember, the game was somewhere around 25GB before it was compressed to 16GB.

Could Insomniac have made the game work on the 360 if they built it from the ground up for that platform? Of course. But in its current state, Resistance could not be done on the 360. That doesn’t mean its not possible, because as any developer will tell you, there are always ways to shrink the size of your game, but it may require you sacraficing some things and re-using some assets.

The ‘padding’ that people are talking about was only found to be about 75MB in size if I remember correctly, and its there to speed up load times. So it does have a purpose and it isn’t even that large to begin with.
Kengro

The cells advantage is not as big as it might look, cell is better on floating point stuff but the cpu in 360 is better on fixed point. A game uses cpu most for fixed point…

360 got a way more powerful gpu, ps3 just got a modifyed 7800 with 256 ram…

So all in all i’m not so shure the ps3 is that much more powerful, it just might be the usal bullshit from sony. I’m not impressed by theyr wiev on truth
AnubisGOJ & Mazoku

I particularly like the comments about how many people are playing Blu-ray movies on their PS3.I believe this is the closest to the actual numbers of players playing instead of eBaying we’re likely to see.

It comes with a movie, so assuming people play with what comes in the box, we should see close to 100% of PS3 users using it to watch a movie. Instead the number falls short. That means that someone isn’t likely playing those systems- which probably means eBay.

I have 1 Blu-ray movie, and 10 HD-DVDs. The PS3 hasn’t made me gravitate to that format (although the upcoming Disney films probably will).
me@u.com

Jason said: "But in its current state, Resistance could not be done on the 360. That doesn’t mean its not possible, because as any developer will tell you, there are always ways to shrink the size of your game, but it may require you sacraficing some things and re-using some assets."

BullShit.
Aedrin

"Isn’t it true that there were less launch games available in Japan for the 360 due to delays in localisation, needing many different disk versions for the different regions?"

Why should I as a consumer pay %5-%10 more to get a fancy Bluray disk, when it could’ve fit on a cheap DVD? I only need 1 language/localisation set. I don’t care of it works for the whole world, if it means I have to pay more.
Andy

Interesting question. Perhaps we should be asking why the XBox 360 games are more expensive than the Xbox games as they are using the same media? Is 9GB of Xbox 360 data more valuable than 9GB of Xbox data?

I don’t think you are paying 5-10% more and the price of 360 games and PS3 games will be the same, as they always have been. Having one disk with multiple languages reduces manufacturing costs and also reduces the frustrations of regionalising games. Want to play Blue Dragon on your US 360 at launch or when/if MS decide to produce a US version? Even worse, you are on vacation and want to purchase a game in the country you are visiting. Should we expect that game to work at home and in the supported language of our choice? I think we should, and I think that if I can’t then the manufacturer is not acting in the consumers best interest.
Trellium

"Did the 360 ship to Antartica on launch day?

Darn Microsoft for leaving the eskimos out in the cold!"

heh, there are no Eskimos in Antarctica. They are in North America, so I assume they could get their 360 fix if they wanted to, its just a matter of shipping.
J.Goodwin

The Cell is also PowerPC based.

The PPE unit (general purpose processor and director) is essentially a two thread 970, but does have a VMX128 added to it, which is why it has such impressive floating point.

Then you have up to eight SPE/SPUs (seven on PS3) which can be used in parallel or daisy chained, and independently have significant capabilities to do double precision float ops, but are more focused on being able to do specific non-logic (computation) tasks very quickly.

====

The XCPU (Waternoose, Xenon) in the 360 also has a VMX128 unit, in addition to three general purpose PPC based processors each capable of running two simultaneous threads.

For all the ruckus, they are very similar in design philosophy and in the actual result.

It’s kind of important to realize that Cell was also supposed to do all of the work that the GPU does in other applications. Thus the SPE model that’s clearly supposed to be able to replicate a shader pipeline. That’s not in XCPU because all of that work is handled by Xenos (and very well). Of course, in the end, Sony couldn’t make that work and turned to nVidia for a real GPU.
Joseph

me@u.com

"BullShit."

Ahh… What a well though out and thought provoking response to a well stated argument. It was well worth your time for and ours enlighting all of your with your rhetorical wit.

I fear that the advanced nature of your argument is beyond the comprhension level of the posters at the Blog.

It is best that you strike out to other areas of the internet and find a place where like minded people will appreciate your uncanny insight more.
Joseph

Andy

I doubt that you will ever personally see the effects of such regionless disks. Remember thet localization is more than just the game disk.

Games in each country are censored differently and are edited accordingly. Also you need to change the box art to suit the market and print the name of the game in the local language on the disk.

Manuals can be multi-lingual but that tends to be in certain markets only.

It does allow a single factory in some place,China, to produce every single copy of a game and distribute them where they are needed. SO if country X isn’t crazy about your game you can ship to country Y that is.
Joseph

Ahh the sick day.

The Ps3 and Blu-ray.

The PS3 having blu ray is a big deal for the adoption to the media. It is even more important than a well priced system add on.

Every person who own a PS3 console is a potentional Blu-ray customer. They may or may not care about HD content right now but the "barrier of entry" is significantly reduced.

It’s no longer a matter of convincing you toshould buy a costly BD player. It now becomes a matter of the movies studios convincing you that you want to buy a BD movie.

It is a lot easier to convince some to spend an extra $10 over dvd cost than $200 for a player and an extra $10 for a movie.

When the PS2 first came out the most played piece of software was the Matrix DVD.

Disney and Sony are both Blu-ray only supporters. The Da Vinchi code and Pirates of the Caribbean 2 will be blu-ray only. Next year it will be Spiderman 3, and Pirates of the Caribbean 3 that are Blueray only.
Kris Naga

"A worldwide launch for any console is quite ambitious. In fact, it has never been done before."

Only part which I could see which is true.
Joseph

post part 1

Kris Naga

"Only part which I could see which is true."

Really now?

Disagreeing with the reason for somthings existance is different from it being factually incorrect(Ie a lie)

You may disagree with blueray but it does hold information than a dvd thus you can put a game on a single disk. Maybe this isn’t an advantage but is certanily true. You think you can fit a 16 gb game on a 10 gb disk without having to use multiple disks?

You may also think that by developing new technology that Sony hindered the release of the console. But, it’s difficult to argue that releasing simplier hardware makes a release more difficult.
Game over for HD DVD

Only 4 of the top 20 DVDs last year are from the HD DVD camp. Almost all the top 20 movies are only available on Blu-ray.

…

Blu-ray has 96% of the HD player market in Japan. "In terms of Japan, the game is already over there."

…

The PS3 Advantage.

Sony has shipped 1 million PS3 as of December 31, 2006.

Survey from 10k respondents, indicate that they plan to purchase Blu-ray movies to view on their PS3.

75% of the respondents plan to use their PS3 as a primary device for watching movies.

80% of 1 million equals an installed base of 800,000.

The same source estimates that PS3 will far outsell the XBOX360 HD DVD Drive.

Largest variety of movies.

Largest variety of hardware.

Only gaming console with built-in HD movie playback.

…

700% software sale increase coincided with PS3 launch.
Joseph

Where did you read that?
me???

i heard it from BDA conference @ CES2007
Misframed

Game over:

Where did you get the 700% software number from?

As far as I have heard, the X360 has a higher attatch rate than the PS3.

If that number is from total software sales, I would think that Gears of War (release roughly the same time as the Ps3) would have a little to do with that number…
Xen

1 million shipped does not equal 1 million sold. Also, even though those DVDs are available on Blu-Ray, not many people are buying them. HD-DVDs are still outselling Blu-Ray movies, at least in Amazon.
Joseph

Part2

This blog post is made to bait the hate against Sony.

The statements made by Kaz are pretty reasonable.
Joseph

Part3

This post happened at the same time as a public snub by Bill Gate and an outright attacks on Sony made by Peter Moore and Chris Satchell. It seems that MS has taken to directly insulting Sony and its employees.

If the level of huburis shown is not part of some very well thought out PR campaign I have serious doubts that Microsoft will be able to lead the game industry or community any place I want to go.

Even if it is well thought I’m not sure I care to follow.
TheDude059

Anyone play Oblivion? Its only 6.4 Gigs. Maybe some should understand how to make a game before they talk numbers. I own both systems and gigs mean nothing. Coders can be so lazy on ps3 its not funny. And 5.1 is all most people will have so compressed audio is just fine.
Joseph

Yeah Oblivion was a great game. So was FFVII at 2.4 gb. That doesn’t mean that in the near future games won’t use the new space.

The lazier you can be with one aspect allows you to do better in another. Instead of worrying how to compress assets to fit in the media you can worry about stuff like game design.

I’m pretty sure that I have a fair grip on making games. Not many developers have come out to say that they will never need to make a game bigger than 9gb.
Aedrin

"Sony has shipped 1 million PS3 as of December 31, 2006."

I think the recent releases have stated that around 500k PS3s have been bought (versus 1 million Wiis).

Can you please post a source claiming any numbers you stated?

"The same source estimates that PS3 will far outsell the XBOX360 HD DVD Drive."

Duh…

One one hand you have an optional feature that only 10% of the user base needs. And on the other hand a forced feature that 90% doesn’t need.

Not that hard to outsell an optional versus a forced "feature".

"Not many developers have come out to say that they will never need to make a game bigger than 9gb."

I’m sure there are a lot of developers out there who say they won’t need more than 9GB in the -immediate future-. Of course a developer is not going to say never.

I mean, why else would they develop for the Wii/Xbox360?
vittala

About the PS3:

"It’s not a bad console; it’s certainly far better than everything else except maybe the Xbox 360. In an ideal world PlayStation 3 will be more powerful, but for the vast majority of the cases, you’ll be able to effectively exploit more power from the 360."

- id Software’s John Carmack (from wired.com interview)

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/games/0,72443-0.html?tw=wn_index_19
quickshad3

I find it funny that it’s the first console to do a worldwide launch.

1. that belongs to xbox

2. You didn’t launch in Europe.

Sony…..when will they learn.
Robin

Neither Xbox had a simultaneous worldwide launch – Hirai doesn’t make any claim that the PS3 did either.

When will they learn… to read?
Joseph

Robin

It’s more fun to mislead people then help them read it right.

Aedrin

The same report that says 500k PS3 also states that 600k wii’s were sold. Since approximatly 1 million more Wii’s shipped than PS3 units that would indicate a far bigger supply glut of Wii units than PS3 units. Either Nintendo misquoted there shipped to us numbers by approximatly 1.5 million or the NPD numbers are way off the mark.Unless there are piles of Wii’s in stores waiting to be purchaced.

The decision to not put a HD-DVD drive in the XBOX360 had nothing to do with games. It was about making the cheapest console that MS could get away with making while beating Sony to market. Honestly they designed the xbox360 well then packed it full of the cheapest crap componets that could be found.

There is no excuse for a $300-400 machine to have a 90 day warranty. Also to have massive DVD drive failures at this stage in the DVD life cycle is unexcusable. There are quality OEM DVD drives, MS chose to lauch without them.
Mogul218

Joseph,

Do you work for Sony or something? I mean here you are fighting every comment tooth and nail. How come you’re not playing your PS3? Oh I’m sorry, I forgot, it only got released with one decent game. You must be bored.

Microsoft extended the warranty to a year retroactive for everyone here on out. So don’t spew any of that 90 day crap. And when I got the RROD (red ring of death) last January, Microsoft got me another 360 within 5 days. I’m not sure what DVD drive problem you’re talking about. As far as I know, there hasn’t been a DVD drive issue since the first Xbox. I still have one of the OG Boxes for over 6 years now and it still works just fine.

BTW, you’re precious little PS3 is in stock EVERYWHERE I go right now, so hope you didn’t spend all night camping for one on launch day. They could ship another million if they wanted to, it wouldn’t make it sell any faster. Take care sweetheart. I’m going back to play some 360.

Kaz speaks Kutargisms regarding PS3

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