Live Anywhere (But Even There?)

hmmm… while I do understand your enthusiasm on the whole issue I am a bit more wary about it. I would certainly love to be able to play with my Pro Evo Soccer 6 on my PC against a same level guy on a xbox360 for sure, but even if the whole platform allows such think it is still about the developers (Konami in this case) to use it (instead of their real bad pc online service they are using at the moment). Somehow I distrust developers in general to embrace the new system (always speaking in terms of PC online playing) in a fast and common way. Of course, being the owner of an old Dreamcast and Quake 3 (supposed to be able to play online against a PC) may be the reason I am getting a bit biased on this though..

I definitely am excited for a service like Live Anywhere, but there’s a few things that have me worried about it, the main one being cross-platform gaming.

That article from Arstechnica talks about how you might be able to play GRAW cross-platform.  Sounds cool, yeah, but there’s a pretty big difference between playing a game like GRAW on a console and a PC.  That difference?  The controller.

For First Person Shooters(or games like GRAW, which are slightly different, but my point will stilll make sense), the games are focused around aiming a gun quickly and accurately.  On a PC, you have a keyboard and a mouse, which has a tried and true formula of WASD to move, and the mouse to aim.  You can aim quickly, and, with any skill(which I don’t have!), aim quickly.

On a console, though, you’ve got a controller.  There’s now a great FPS formula thanks to Halo, but the fact of the matter is that it’s much tougher to aim with a controller.  On default sensitivities, it’s pretty accurate, but the problem is how slow it is.  You can up the sensitivity(which I think is a must in Halo, but as I said, I suck pretty bad), but since you can only move the analog sticks so far, you have much less control over your gun when you’re using higher sensitivities.

This leads me to see two possible outcomes:

1) PC gamers playing console gamers in a FPS title will have a distinct advantage, and games like Halo that make use of matchmaking will quickly become a matter of the person on the right platform will walk away with the spoils.  I can’t say that thrills me too much.

2) Xbox 360 games will get games mapped for USB keyboards and mice.  This I really don’t want to see, as part of the reason I play console games instead of PC games(when I do, I mean.  I play both) is that a controller is much more comfortable.

It has me a little concerned, to say the least.

Other than that, though, everything yout outlined sounds great.  Social networking to set up matches, while probably unecessary, will be useful.  Downloading a game on one device and having access to it on others is a great idea, and I’m a #1 fan of that one.  It really sounds like a great idea, but cross-platform gaming just really has me cautious.

I am really hyped about this service, and I will do all I can to experience it, but I have one question, can the phone and plan I have right now(plan doesn’t run out until May, too long to wait!)which is a Verizon LG VX5200 pick up the service on day one? Is there an answer, or is there nothing certian or is there perhaps a restrictions from any MS employee Terms of Agreement. I would really appreciate an answer sometime soon, so if at the worst, I cannot connect, that I don’t have to suffer from the dissapointment of 6 months of welled up exitment crashing down on my digitally centric being. Thanks for any answer, I will try and check comments, but I would appreciate it if somebody filled me in via email: q.mischief@gmail.com, or over XBL, gamertag QuantumMischief.

WiNG– I used to play Quake 3 on my Dreamcast, too!  Fun times… now though, I’ve given up on it, as I NEED two joysticks and don’t want to spend more money on a broadband adapter for the DC.  Was cool though.

Alakaiser, I, and I suppose just about ever Xbox/pc user knows what you mean. There is no doubt that fps with PC and Xbox will still be fun, but if a death match were to go on of equal Xbox 360 and PC players, the pc players will all come out on top.

But FPSs are not the only genres. Look at some of the games that are a lot better on a controllers than on a keyboard and mouse (KB/M). Racing games for example. Controllers have an advantage over KB/M because you can do minute adjustments, unlike the KBs ‘on or off/ up or down’ keys. Also the controller’s joysticks are very good at rotating camera angles. In adventure games and 3rd person games, where camera angle is always changing, a device that controls the camera well is a must. I find KB/M is not as good at this, although I may have people who disagree with that. Think Star wars KOTOR and Fable. They were suited perfectly to the controller, and those who went from the controller to the KB/M (like me) found it very difficult to switch.

One thing I hope is that developers take advantage of that fact that some people will play with controllers on their xbox and KB/M on their PC, and suit their games to allow the best of both worlds. What I mean is, imagine a co-op game where one player drives and the other shoots out the top? Controller guy would be better suited to drive (or he might even have the new MS Wireless Racing wheel *HINT HINT, waiting for its release Looking for any news about that *) and the PC guy shoots. Obviously you can switch, and have the KB/M guy drive as well, but it would be great fun with Xbox and pc complementing each other.

The thing that makes Live so great, IMO, is that it is a closed environment.  Everybody logs on with generally the same machine as everybody else, thus performance with hardware is relatively equal.  I don’t have to worry about Joe Schmo in middle-of-nowheresville logging on and trying to play with a 56K connection.  

My primary concern with a service like Live Anywhere is not performance irregularities between machines, but the threat of viruses, spyware and the like.  There’s viral achievements on the horizon… cool, interesting, yet somewhat disconcerting.  But could somebody with a PC who connects to Live Anywhere unleash malicious code on my unsuspecting Xbox 360?  My PC is prepared to protect me… but is my Xbox?  Currently, there’s nothing on Live that’s anything other than an Xbox, and even though modified systems are out there *gasp*, they aren’t anything like networking with a spyware riddled PC.  I mean, Live is essentially just one large network of Xboxes.  If the network at my place of employment can be brought down with a simple e-mail attachment, as it was this week… what about Live, and my Xbox 360?

Perhaps my concerns are unfounded.  I hope so–no way am I paying to install firewalls, anti-spyware software, etc. on my Xbox.  I want an online console experience… not an online PC experience.

the viral achievement doesn’t use, leave or creat any sercurity risk.

Live anywhere is revolutionary, that is what ozy is saying. personally i can’t wait to be able to play against my PC gaming friends, remotely download to my 360 and communitact from 360 live to MSN. that is a killer app. and once vista is released properly, even more Live compatability will ensue.

MS have really nailed it this time. Sony are a sinking ship, while Nintendo will rule japan… i think 360 will be the mainstream console of choice this time around. PS3 is about to have a major developer problem.

‘Live Anywhere’… sounds great, but with a slogan like that are they still going to limit marketplace downloads by region?

I don’t believe the general lack of enthusiasm should come as a great shock. Now, Live Anywhere seems like a great integrated network for the average consumer, but for the rest of us I just don’t see it being terribly relevant.

Using myself as an example, I have a network of friends that I keep in touch with via AIM. If one of them buys a 360, I get their Gamertag and add them to my friends list. If one of them buys a cell phone, I get their phone number and add it to my Contacts. If someone was new to this, Live Anywhere could certainly save them time and frustration.

Personally? I would rather save myself the hassle of setting up this OTHER network on my PC/phone and just stick with what’s already in place. Would it be easier if I could see if my friends were on their PCs or cells from my 360? Sure, but it’s only a few feet to my computer, and my phone is in my pocket. Would I enjoy being able to play Live games on my phone? Perhaps, but I bring my DS or my PSP with me most places for that very reason. I can see a more casual gamer, with a family computer and no handheld systems, being very excited about these features, but they just don’t seem very important to me. I have a feeling a lot of the more "hardcore" gamers (a term I am redefining on a daily basis) are in a similar situation.

The one part of Live Anywhere that seems tailor-made for me is the ability to play games cross-platform. Now, even if my friends don’t own a 360, or their computers aren’t advanced enough to run Game Y, we can still get together and have a good time. That’s very cool, and I’m (cautiously) optimistic about that feature.

Not that I’m saying this is a bad thing; with Nintedo poised to make a very strong bid for the broader audience of casual/non-gamers, a simple, easy, integrated online network could be an incredibly valuable ace up Microsoft’s sleeve.

As recent as 12 months ago I was very wary of the whole idea, cross platform gaming, convergance, etc.  Now I’ve heard some of the details and the long term vision and considered some of the possibilities I can’t wait to actually see it in action.  Shadowrun is one of my top 5 most wanted games at the moment and largely because on the cross-platform possibilities.  Two thumbs up MS.

This article makes it out as if online gaming on XBox Live is currently an ideal situation, that should be an example for PC online gaming. In my opinion, unfortunately, it’s far, far, from ideal. Some of the problems I have encountered so far on XBox Live:

- Lobbies and matchmaking procedures are still left up to the developer. This results in extremely varying online gaming experiences, from unusable lobbies (originally CoD), barely workable ones (PGR3), and just very strange lobbies (DoA). A  bit more standardization guidelines in this from Microsoft would be appreciated.

- The verbal abuse on Xbox Live is terrible. Gaming zones do not seem to function at all in matchmaking procedures. "Avoided" players don’t seem to work either (at least not in PGR3). Many games don’t even show who is talking, so leaving feedback is impossible.

All in all, I’m still having a lot more online gaming fun in PC MMO games like World of Warcraft and Guild Wars than on XBox Live…

The reason people didn’t get excited, was that we don’t think it’s exciting to be able to check our gamerscore on the go, which apparently was one of the biiiig features I have not read all of your article yet though, gonna read it now.

"download content for other devices (for example, to your Xbox 360 at home while you’re on the road)"

When you say something like this, do you mean I’ll be able to download software or other content to my machine, and find it on my machine when I get home a la Wii? Wii’s solution sounds simpler, because if I have to leave my Xbox 360 on 24/7, all fans going, just so I can download things to it when I’m out on the town, then no thanks. The box would have to be able to be in some kind of low power consumption stand by mode for that.

I think Wii’s service sounds very interesting, and I’m really surprised that you (Microsoft) never implemented such a feature. But maybe you didn’t have time?

"That game save (and the fact that you unlocked the Achievement) is stored on the Live Anywhere service"

hmm…doesn’t it work like that already?  From my experience, it would seem that settings and saves for the arcade games are stored to the profile. (the size of my profile is now over 4mb btw) I started to notice this when I had to switch machine, and even though I never copied Mutant storm reloaded from the hard drive to a memory card, I was able to continue where I left of when I got the new machine and hard drive, after having downloaded Mutant storm reloaded again.

So it would seem you already got this in place, without telling us

Some good points there BrokenSymmetry:

Yes, the feedback system needs an overhaul. It just doesn’t seem to work as MS intended.

And the lobbies are horrible. Many of the developers, some which BrokenSymmetry already mentioned, have already showed that they can’t handle the freedom, so MS needs to take ownership here.

Maybe not 100%, but at least set up some basic requirements and let the developers play with the design from those requirements.

Basic demands such as the person currenlty chatting should be visible on the screen is one example.

Hm, i will only join if the gamertag i want will be available again.

So, does anyone have some news/ update about it?

Or is the Xbox department of Microsoft already working on it?

Again, i also want to use Live Anywhere/ Xbox Live Gold service, and because i am paying for it, i expect i can choose any available/ inactive gamertag i want. I hope this is not an unreasonable request…

Thank you!!!

Inactive Gamertag: ???

Perhaps a lot of the lack of enthusiasm comes from the fact this isn’t a particularly new idea?

Sure, it’s new for Microsoft these days, but 4 years ago when I was talking to Microsoft about cross-platform Xbox Live (Xbox<->PC and mobile), Microsoft basically told me that would never happen and it was not something they would ever be interested in. We tried to get MS interested in an online MMORTS that would have been playable in PC, Xbox Live and mobile handset, all at the same time, all in the same game world – but could not get anyone at MS interested at all.

Personally I’ve been publicly vocal (in print, in presentation at conferences, in trade missions on behalf of governments, in my work life, in the companies I have worked for and set up and in online writing) about cross-platform for at least 6 years, but in all that time the ‘major players’ (MS, Sony, Nintendo, Nokia, the games developers/publishers) have never been interested in breaking out of the vertical market silos they’ve built for themselves and allowing players to play together on different platforms.

It’s also telling that Microsoft’s vision is not one of interoperability, it’s one of other paltforms interoperating with Xbox Live, leaving Microsoft still controlling the user credentials (and hence the subscription fees).

It’s nice to see Microsoft are finally catching up, but for me this type of technology and service is old news.

@Mattias

Yes? You called me?

Sounds like a good idea and has potenital but personally I will just be using it [if possible] to check new marketplace content.

Well the novelty of checking on what your freinds are doing online will die eventually but lets say when MORE POPULAR games are released, i reckon the people with mobile phones that can support Live Anywhere will enjoy the service.

Eg. Halo 3 checking your freinds achievements.. as Halo 2 is a very addictive game on LIVE it will work best with games like this.

Live Anywhere sounds cool and revolutionary, but I have absolutely no use for it.  I only use my cell phone as a cell phone and I don’t really have a PC to play games on…. plus, I only actually KNOW about 4 people on xbox Live.  So, for me personally, the whole thing is kind’ve useless, but I could see how some people would be excited for it.  Good show, MS!

Regarding different controllers on different platforms being a challenge to balancing difficulty:

It’s interesting, but talking to developers most don’t think this is a blocking issue. Everyone is the first to state it’s something to think through, but if you think about it, there are plenty of knobs and levers you can play with when tuning controls. It comes down to playtesting the balance to make sure it’s fair. One example is Shadowrun, which we showed at E3 and allowed people to play cross-platform between a Vista machine and a 360. Most people would think the keyboard/mouse player would have an advantage, but it turned out the player on the 360 actually had it slightly better. One of the reasons? The rumble on the controller gave a quicker heads-up to the console player that they were taking fire.

Obviously, this might mean that Shadowrun could use a bit of tuning to allow the PC player to better compete, but I bring it up because it goes against the conventional wisdom of “keyboard/mouse must be better for an FPS.”

One last thought – there’s nothing about Live Anywhere that blocks a developer from allowing a gamer to set matchmaking toggles. If you only want to play with a 360 controller (vs. the same controller on the PC), the game can choose to expose that filter. It’s up to the developer.

Re "When you say something like this, do you mean I’ll be able to download software or other content to my machine, and find it on my machine when I get home a la Wii? Wii’s solution sounds simpler, because if I have to leave my Xbox 360 on 24/7, all fans going, just so I can download things to it when I’m out on the town, then no thanks. The box would have to be able to be in some kind of low power consumption stand by mode for that."

There’s one big difference, and that’s that the idea is that you’ll be able to pick what you want to download, whereas Wii (from what I’ve read) apparently will simply pre-load things Nintendo thinks is of interest to you. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a very cool feature, but it is somewhat different.

Of course, I’m talking at a high-level here – there’s lots of work to be done yet, so it’s impossible to say exactly how things might be implemented on either platform.

Re "Again, i also want to use Live Anywhere/ Xbox Live Gold service, and because i am paying for it, i expect i can choose any available/ inactive gamertag i want. I hope this is not an unreasonable request… "

I don’t have any update on this request I’m afraid. All I can say is that the teams have heard it – we can hope this will be available one day. I have a friend who is in the same bucket as you for what it’s worth. Can’t help him yet either.

Ah, Shadowrun! I can’t help it, but everytime I hear about this game I feel a sharp pang of dissappointment that this game is not an RPG (as of course it should be)…

@Ozymandias

Many, many thanks for this small news/ update!

At least i now have a confirmation the boys and girls of Xbox department are aware of this issue.

Well, let’s hope all those canceled/ inactive gamertags will be set free very soon!

Again, thank you!

 The penny arcade strip is hilarious. I was imagining the same thing in my head just before I came to that part.

 I do have a few concerns about this next step in online gaming.

 The first is with cross-platform multiplayer matchs. This would be brilliant, but, there is going to have to be a lot more security added on the pc side of things in terms of the modification of files for cheating. If the experience of a game is going to be enjoyed by all who own it, regardless of preferred platform, then this is a must. In it’s current state, cheating in online play with an xbox360 is not an issue, but pc gaming is a completely different world. I hope this service takes that into account.

The second is a change in pricing. Providing a service on a larger scale like this costs more, and I hope it won’t have an effect on people who just want one part of the service. The idea of having already downloaded content for one platform available for free on another is good news for the consumer, but is it likely? That’s a lot of lost sales. I hope, as I know they will, Microsoft will provide different bundles and upgrades for the service offering us the use of a part of or the whole service.

Don’t get me wrong, this is great news. I’m definately ready to take my addiction to a higher level. Bring on Live Anywhere!

I’m very exited, but…. and this is not me trying to be cleaver, because I’m not. The infrastructure that will have to be in-place for this to all happen is going to have to be huge, supporting cross platform multiplayer gaming and resources, will be the most likely pitfall that would hinder its success. its not such a worry for the bigger games like halo which could probably, with a bit of thought work on multiple platforms quite soon…. hers hoping halo 3 will!!! you never know. I dont think M$ aer thinking hard enough though… the first thing i’d want to do with my phone is be able to log in and watch Gotham TV, or watch my m8′s real time playing Graw !! that would be really cool.  and lets face it what M$ have learnt over the past five years…. since the Launch of XP, and the original X-Box, I remember when they first linked invites etc to messenger…. and thats been it !! lets see some more action… and some real innovations. non of the plans are that revolutionary…. as i can already check my gamer card, and stats using my PDA? what M$ should hurry up and do is release a good handheld…. thats will allow me to control my 360, act as a GPS when in the car, and allow me  add my own phone sim …. then every one will want one

Thanks for the reply!  It’s good to know you’re not a post and run kind of blogger.

I suppose tuning controls can be used to make things a bit more even, but I still remain skeptical.  However, I didn’t hear about the Shadowrun demo at E3 (I was too busy oggling over Spore ), so it’s good to hear that PC gamers might not have the advantage 100% of the time.

Oh, and the fact that you actually mentioined platform-specific matchmaking leaderboards just warms my heart.

Like you I’m also excited about Live Anywhere specially xbox and pc multiplayer integration.

lets say I purchased a live anywhere compatible game in marketplace and downloaded it in my 360. Will I be able to download the same game in my cell phone or PC for free?

Thank God "oO0 Huffy 0Oo", You didn’t ask to MS for the direct satellite video feed of you location in your handheld. LOL

"most wanted features on Xboy"

1.Control Xbox with it.

2. use it as a GPS.

…………

I agree on the Shadowrun "issue". I think it’s just silly when I hear comments like "no way! You need kb and mouse for an FPS!!"

Most of the times, comments like that come from narrow minded people, who can’t possibly be thinking constructive ábout anything in their daily lives. Keyboard and mouse are needed to play FPS effectively, and everything else sucks. Well, that’s a colletion of fine arguments.

The KB/mouse people should maybe spend some more time on console?

I agree with you that there are a number of ways to tweak the controls. But of course, then people object to that, saying that the fact that you have to give console gamers an "advantage" is the reason kb/mouse "rules". I read "advantage" many times, which I think is wrong. I think it’s more about balance, making kb/mouse players on the level with FPS players.

And why can’t they be curious and optimistic for once? Since they haven’t tried to play Shadowrun (99.9% of the critics weren’t even at E3), how can they know what it’ll turn out to be like?

I look forward to Shadowrun, and I think it’s going to be a blast playing against PC players as well. I think both "sides" will have just as fun

"There’s one big difference, and that’s that the idea is that you’ll be able to pick what you want to download, whereas Wii (from what I’ve read) apparently will simply pre-load things Nintendo thinks is of interest to you. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a very cool feature, but it is somewhat different."

Aha, so what you mean is that I will ("maybe", since I understand nothing is finalized) be able to browse the marketplace and queue up content to be downloaded on my box? To put the downloads in the "Active downloads" list? Ok, that seems fair, and I kind of like the idea really.

"…Xbox Live has been able to enable"

Nice quote. I would like to see this Live Anywhere in action.

To be honest, Live Anywhere just is not my cup of tea.

One thing that worries me is the Achievement integration, as well as 360vsPC gaming.  

1)  PCs + Achievements.  Things like mods and map hacks can make achievements 100% easier on PCs.  Need to collect every weapon?  Download a new level, or just a hack, and boom, achivement unlocked.

2)  PCS vs. Xbox.  I’ve gamed on a PC, I’ve gamed on a 360.  Regardless of each system’s pros and cons, PCs have better control.  Every now and then a game like Oblivion will change that (as it’s PC interface was seriously gimped), but if I’m playing Halo 3 against somebody on a PC, his mouselook will obliterate my analog control.  Furthermore, monitors with even higher definitions will provide PC gamers with a more enhanced field of view, and again I will mention mods.  

3)  Too many Achievements?  If every MS-approved game had Achievement points (and how many devs will try to get into it), we could have hundreds of confusing Achievements flying around, not to mention if devs made different versions of games (say if the PC version of Prey was different from the 360 version).  A minor point, but I would keep Achievements to the 360, and perhaps MS’s theoretical handheld system, if it exists.

Oh, and BrokenSymmetry said "- Lobbies and matchmaking procedures are still left up to the developer. This results in extremely varying online gaming experiences, from unusable lobbies (originally CoD), barely workable ones (PGR3), and just very strange lobbies (DoA). A  bit more standardization guidelines in this from Microsoft would be appreciated."

I understand your point, and I agree that it would be nice to have some standardization, I disagree that all standard lobbies are bad.  Halo 2′s Party system was new for XBL gamers at the time – and regardless of your opinions on it’s playlists or the game itself, the party system rocked (not to mention it’s GUI is significantly faster than that of my 360).

The DOA4 lobby, while odd, is fun and different.  I wouldn’t change it at all.

I also heard that Microsoft has a couple of tricks of their sleeves for the PS3 and Wii launch!

RE: Live Anywhere (But Even There?)

Been doing a lot of work on future platform planning and was having a conversation with a co-worker about

RE: Live Anywhere (But Even There?)

… also known as "games you can play with your friends without having to be online at the same time

RE: Live Anywhere (But Even There?)

I know, I know; Sam Walton was the devil incarnate. His empire caused the entire downfall of American life and civilization as we know it. Wal- Mart (which I have never taken a shine to) and Sam’ s Club have been vilified as uncaring and tyrannical employers