Penny Arcade on Microsoft Bloggers
Just wanted to point you to a couple of interesting posts today.
The first was Jerry/”Tycho” of Penny Arcade fame talking about ThreeSpeech (the “unofficial” Sony blog), as well as commenting on Microsoft bloggers in general. As usual, his writing speaks for itself, so I’ll just quote the piece referring to Microsoft blogs:
Microsoft’s marketing isn’t slimy, it’s just bad. Inert. The entire platform strategy was designed to secure a leadership position in the next generation, and once they achieved it, they were paralyzed by it. I thought it was rudderless behavior until I realized that they had simply reached their destination and sort of unpacked their things. As for their blogger phalanx which encircles the web, their position as explicit partisans dilutes their message automatically. Unless you are searching for quantifiable facts like release dates or raw platform orthodoxy, their editorial content is understood to emanate from that circle of cursed megaliths in Redmond.
For what it’s worth, I’m actually good friends with Jerry (and the rest of the PA crew), and don’t take any offense here. I completely agree about the “challenged” attributation of ThreeSpeech opinions. I’m certainly not thrilled with all of our marketing (and frankly, Apple manages to spank us so badly at times that it really, really smarts!) Can’t argue that one. But I was somewhat struck by his opinion on corporate bloggers.
I can’t argue the fact that simply being employed by a company in an industry you’re commenting on is going to have the effect of causing people to suspect bias. And in fact, there’s truth to the statement. The simple fact that I can’t write about some of the confidential things we’re doing removes a huge chunk of topics right off the top. And I’m sure the very nature of working on something you believe in passionately can also tinge a viewpoint. But I can also say that a lot of folks at Microsoft (especially those in the games division) are super-passionate about what we’ve built and continue to build.
There have been plenty of times that people have sent us feedback (some of it solicited here, in fact). And it’s good stuff. You’d be amazed at how often we’re already working on identified problems – we’re gamers here, it’s not like we don’t know. Unfortunately, sometimes we just can can’t enable certain things. To use one of Jerry’s favorite quotes of mine, it’s often a “time and space” issue. Sometimes we’re able to get to it later, sometimes we never get to it. But I can say that there’s a lot of deep, internal soulsearching when we make the tradeoffs on what we build. There’s some magical stuff coming down the pipe in the next few years… give us the benefit of the doubt. We tend to deliver on our promises, even if it takes us three versions to get it right. 
One of my coworkers was also struck by Jerry’s comments, and he wrote up a heartfelt response. Take a read, and whatever you do, keep up the communication and the comments. (Yes, even you Mr. “Ring of Death and DVD attack” man. ) We’re slow sometimes, but each and every one of your comments are heard.
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I don’t come to blogs like these for unbiased opinions. Is there even such a thing? I come here to read about the opinions of the people that actually get a say in making the stuff that enjoy spending huge amounts of money on!
Well, since you guys seem to be in a very listen-type mood after that, perhaps we can have some sort of update / statement regarding the horrible situation that is happening for a lot of people (including myself).
http://forums.xbox.com/1/13515975/ShowPost.aspx
It’s a 30 page thread already!
When I read the PA post this morning, I didn’t really think he was talking about this blog, or Lets Kill Dave, really. I thought he was talking about Major Nelson. Because MN is basically pure Microsoft PR with a relatively unfiltered comment section.
And even there I’d disagree with things, because when you listen to the podcasts, sometimes you can really tell that he hates having to feed the line of BS that he’s having to. The specific case I remember on that was the outrageous pricing of the Guitar Hero II downloadable content.
And you can’t tell me that corporate would have approved of the interview with the Shadowrun dev last week, ahead of time. That was one of the better podcast segments in quite awhile. He was quite incensed with the (in my view) perfectly reasonable review scores for only releasing half a game.
I’ll just say this is one of those "we know" areas… hang in there.
Alright thanks Ozy
Makes me feel a bit better then. I’ll hang out then until I hear an official word / solution!
Fair call to Jerry – it seems he wasn’t being critical of the actual blogs – or bloggers – just the overall inertia MS’ marketing seems to have slumped to.
18 months – overall units sold lead – this should be “killer blow” time – price drops, multiple demographic high rotation advertisement, retail/developer partnership marketing.
Instead we have some really cool stuff – Wireless receivers for PC, MSN integration – that the hardcore (myself included) lap up – and things like The Elite that make Joe Q Public go wtf?
Yes it seems like once that summit is reached – they’re unpacking their stuff – not aggressively defending/increasing that lead. “Look upon my works ye mighty, and despair” – while not a successful long term strategy for civilisation building – is the screed of most every console generation leader.
Maybe this is just the calm before the (H3 led no doubt) mass market assault storm.
The “faulty/redring” perception with Joe Q Public – whether exagerrated or not (I’m still on my first after 14 or so months) – still hangs over like an albatross. All it needs is a big PR blitz – “free repair (for 12 months)” – “here’s those new lower voltage chips every intertron fence sitter is “holding out” for. In this regard I still prefer MS’s attitude to Sony’s PS2 laser “not happening, your fault” debacle of 5 years ago, but surely this problem could be solved by some friendly marketing? Remember the guerilla “ipod battery replacement” movement of a few years ago, when the ipod was still approaching the zenith of where it is now? Apple nipped that one right in the bud – high rotation – we fix it advertisements and press releases. MS need to take this approach – and soon.
Anyway – as someone who has nothing but love for my 360 and it’s games (I’ll leave “company” love to the fanboys) – as no doubt Jerry does – I too am dismayed by what seems less marketing/mainstream platform direction than there appeared to be 12 months ago. And again, I found his criticism, not of individual bloggers – but the overall marketing slowdown.
I appreciate the fact that Ozy’s, Larry’s and other MS blogs don’t read like “buy teh gamez!” propaganda, but it seems – to a certain extent – MS has left the marketing to you guys for a few months – which essentially – in a mass market context – isn’t bringing anyone from “outside”.
But maybe you know something we don’t?
Anyway – keep up the conversations.
The guys at PA are basically whining about people having opinions, and acting on those opinions by, say, working for specific companies.
I seriously doubt any Microsoft blogger would work for MS if they truly thought anything and/or everything MS does is stupid, evil or worthless.
And in a world where 9 journalists out of 10 donate to a specific party and where the most successfull pundits are *very* biased politically and not, these guys are simply talking about something that has not and will never exist in punditing.
For good or worse.
Frankly I can see both sides of the issue here,
as I said on Dave’s blog.
In my opinion, it’s unfortunate that corporate employees cannot say things. Surely there’s someone there who would love to probably list out the issues that they see for their AND how they’re working to solve them.
Often from my consumer POV, it can seem that bloggers who are part of a corporation are very very, almost impossibly slow to critize. And I think that’s a shame. It’d be nice to have someone who actually admits there’s a serious problem, and HOW it’s fixed.
But I guess it’s nice to want things, eh?
MS has two 800 pound gorillas in the room to contend with, as I see it.
The first gorilla is called marketing. Currently the 360 has the lead, but rather than stir up a marketing fenzy, this has led to complacency. What are the hot games just around the corner? What are the hot games playable right now? Frankly, I’m not seeing much about the 360. In a recent article praising the Wii’s brisk sales, I noticed that although Sony got mentioned for less brisk sales, MS didn’t get a mention at all. To be the current console market leader and not even make it into an article, that’s not good pr. Maybe you’re saving up for the holiday season, which looks like it will be tremendous.
Second gorilla is named reliability. Go to any forum and you’ll see the inevitable “my 360 died for the X time!” postings. 1up.com has an article about a guy who’s currently on his 12th! Now I realize that complainers blog more often than praisers, but frankly it’s created a stigma around the 360 that has yet to be addressed by MS. MS has changed customer service procedures, but they’ve never really stated what the problem is/was, or whether it’s been corrected. I do know people personally who are staying away because of the reliability questions; it’s in MS’s best interest to be up front with this issue.
As for the whole “MS bloggers” deal, I don’t believe you’re part of the marketing arm Oz. You’re a gamer that works at MS and likes to get a pulse on the public opinion. More power to you. And if that provides us a place to speak out and maybe get heard, then that’s more than I can do with Sony or Nintendo…so good for us.
I think is should at least be acknowledged that Microsoft has done the right thing and allowed its employees to openly blog about the company, products and competitors. As much as I am a firm Apple supporter, I can’t imagine a world in which an Apple employee could have such an open discourse with the web community. Sony and Nintendo are shockingly late to the party, so big props to Ozymandias the gang.
Where I DO think these blogs fall short, especially Gamerscore and Major Nelson (as the official PR blog) is that they have established a rapport with the community, but when an unplanned incident occurs they are slow to react (slow being a relative term, but in the world of Teh Internets, not having a comment to a hot topic within a couple of hours is slow…). The Crackdown/Halo 3 Beta incident was a great example. In those times, it reinforces the fact that yes, it’s an MS Blog, but it’s just a cog in a giant, cumbersome, machine.
Is the reliability issue (blinking red @nus) in the "we know" area?
I read Dave’s response. Not bad, can appreciate his comments too. One of the thing I think Tycho was getting at is that while many corporate-ish bloggers folks may claim a huge interest in getting feedback, there are those “chickenpoop” restrictions Dave speaks of related to _how_ the feedback is getting addressed.
I understand transparency is impossible, but even translucency appears to be hard. Look at the furor around the pricing of GH songpacks (for the record I have no interest in GH, btw, so don’t care) – so many replies from different blog outlets (including the podcasts) were really boiled down to “we’re listening” or “it’s not something we set” or “it’s not something we can talk about”.
Listening to the GSBlog guys (whose ‘cast I often enjoy due to their good natured ribbing and jesting), it sometimes feels like they’re embarrassed they’re unable to address a question to the satisfaction of their readers/listeners. They want to, but they’re hamstrung or they can’t give ‘the real dirt’, or they could genuinely disagree but can’t voice that opinion because hey – who signs their paycheques? You can really read the frustration of those readers who interpret a “no comment” kind of response as a “no action taken” response. The rhetoric of these commentators ends up poisoning the rep of the people trying to help. Maybe they need some kind of indemnity agreement so they can be less guarded?
Initiatives come in waves. But after the beach has been disrupted, a new initiative comes along and resets it. For example, there was a large call of the XBLM ten commandments. Many members of the public came back with all kinds of feedback and suggestions and comments. And then it just disappeared. We don’t know if BigVIP picked the best ten and posted them outside his office door, or if guidelines to publishers were rewritten to accommodate these expressed ideas from the consumers, etc. Sure, we got the lowdown on size changes for XBLA games and the extra achievement points. But silence on the “features/cheats free on other consoles should be free on the 360″ *cough*EA*cough*, or many of the other suggestions.
The recent XBLA call to action – there was a reply on Edery’s blog, which was good to see. Then nothing. Maybe the signal to noise of all the comments overwhelmed further response. But it would be cool to know that some of the many suggestions there (even the little ones) are being acted on even a “near/far” list or “top ten things we heard” – there are always quick hits that can be found out there. Folks like myself wonder if MS has analysis paralysis sometimes – they solicit feedback, get all kinds back and then it seems ages before they act on it (or they had a great idea, like the disc title in the tray, and it disappears for whatever reason).
In any case, I’m all for the blogging, and often the passion shows. So long as it’s passion and not evangelism or a press release feed.
They have a point, but it’s unfair to tar all of the ms bloggers with the same brush. Point in fact, I think your blog (Oz) is pretty fair and balanced and interesting. I think Larry’s blog (Major Nelson) has become not only self-agrandizing but also lacks integrity. LOL, his pod casts started as annoying and vaguely incestuous (all that e and trixie crap) and I finally stopped listening to anything but the interviews when he dismissed the whole Gears of War map fiasco as either justified because Epic cost Ms so much in making 360’s or called everyone that disagreed with the map charges whiney. He’s become nothing but an apologist in the purist Soviet tradition
i am on my 5th console in 3 months, i had 4 ring of deaths and 7 dvd scratches without moving the 360 console. m$ better sort out their reliability issues first before it lets their games and live down.
One thing I like about these blogs is when they can talk about their job or field in general, an example being a programmer talking about steps he takes when he codes and what goes through his mind.
The stuff that turns me off is when obvious spin is put on certain issues (positive for the company, negative for competition).
I know apparent bias may only be in the mind of the reader at times, but there are times that its not.
And it snot as if bloggers are so clever in their writing that we can’t pick up that the reason you are talking about “X” subject in a prasiworhy fashion is so you can “subtly” dig “Y” product with a quick line or two thrown in.
A slong as the bloggers are honest it shouldn’t be a problem.
I’d like to touch more on what was said about MS being the leader (as of now) in the next generation because I agree with that comment.
What are you doing now MS? We all know Halo 3 and Mass Effect are on the way, but in a very crucial time, almost a year after the Wii and PS3 have launched and are improving every day, what’s new in XBOX land? There is barely anything going on and now is when MS should be taking uppercuts and right hooks at their opponent. They are really in a position right now to literally crush Sony and they haven’t done so nor do they even seem to be trying… more and more reports of faulty consoles (which MS continually denies and refuses to rectify); hardly any word on new features coming down the pike; barely any new game announcements; summer drought, etc.
What the heck, MS? Now is the time and you are spending it floundering in the mud like a legless salamander. I bought a 360 not only for what it had to offer, but for what the future would hold. And the future isn’t looking as spectacular as I had hoped.
I cross my fingers for an E3 that knocks our socks off because right now I’m wearing knee-highs and they’re pulled up all the way.
Anyone agree?
Gaming droubt? apparently you didn’t blow $400 bucks on Wednesdays releases.
Faulty consoles are a problem, although I have never had a problem personally.
XBOX Live is 2 years ahead of PS3’s online capabilities…
AND FOR GAMES coming down the pike? Check out the ESRB website and you’ll see a majority of all new games coming out are coming to the XBOX 360.
@Maynard: My bets are that after E3 and XNA Gamefest, we should be left feeling very satisfied.
I definitely agree with Maynard. Microsoft should openly face the truth and admit in public that there indeed is something wrong with the XO build quality. And even more importantly, acknowledge that they are doing something about it.
Otherwise you are just letting your momentum and reputation to get ruined. People are not buying a console now that everyone knows that 360 really stands for the average lifetime.
I hope you’re right, Cryovat. This E3 better be a big one for MS or we could see the ps3 start to pick up steam.
I also agree with Salo. Although I don’t know if MS needs to "openly admit" anything, but at least let us know if a fix is on the way. I know a few people who won’t go near an xbox because of its failure rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesaving
This site is amusing, you’re quick to highlight any problems with the PS3 but completly fail to address the massive amount of 360s currently being returned in the UK.
There are claims 2,500 360s are bricking daily in the UK.
Repairs are being carried out offshore & therefore have gamers waiting upto 2months for the return of their 360s, despite the fact many of the repairs are paid for out of gamers pockets.
A 3rd party repair company Micromart Ltd is now refusing to repair 360s exhibiting the red ring of death claiming so many consoles have this problem its not viable to repair them & impossible to offer any guarantee.
Look forward to your response or lack thereof!
@Craig. Sorry but I think your venting rather badly there. My launch console died recently (end of last month), rang MS, ok £86 later I have a returns label. Took about 2 weeks for my console to get back to me (not someone else’s or a refurb, which is what I was expecting). Another friend local to me had exactly the same experience, I don’t think they could improve on the returns process, except getting rid of the “on hold” queues on the support number or/and make the repair free/cheaper. They knew the returns process was fubar, but they have appeared to rectified the problems with it.
Personally, rather than seeing a months live sub in the returned box, you could give the option of say 400 points, or a £5 Game (bestbuy or whatever shop) voucher??, something for everyone there. The extra years warranty is nice too.
@Ms Bloggers.
The problem is press and people love the underdog to succeed, when they do something right its awesome and when something goes wrong, aww the didn’t quite get that right better luck next time. But when your top dog, you are expected to get it right each and every time, so when you don’t its an end of the world crisis.
I just wish that when something does go wrong, that people didn’t just turn off the lights and try and pretend that no one is home (yes I know you are whipping the monkey for getting it wrong and your not at your desk). A couple of examples, Halo3/crackdown, it took ages for someone to explain what went wrong and what was being done. Rainbow 6 Vegas Black Map Pack, well what can be said, reports of MS support desk staff blaming ubi for pulling the download, ubi forum moderators blaming a marketplace problem, this clearly shows when transparency should first and foremost the most important thing. How you handle a situation when something does go wrong is what people are going to remember.
Your stuck between a rock and a hard place, yes I understand but its still doesn’t stop me from getting annoyed when I dont know what’s going on.
When you visit an MS employees blog you expect a biased opinion, just like when you view the playstation blog or any other blog, what I wont stand for is condemning the competition out of hand like threespeech did to MN.
Keep up the good work and lets push things forward, I’ve ranted enough for now, I yield the floor to the next speaker.
PS – as for E3, I am expecting MS to announce something as big as home was for PSN, just so you know
no pressure ofcourse.
All my pith comments about Major Nelson’s weak blog have been lost to the spam filter. Or have they
I really do think MS is learning from there mistakes and it is silly to think that there is nothing worth while in the systems future. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the xbox offices. Now going to the hardware issue I think that they should say what the main issue was and it doesn’t have to be the number of failures either. Be truthfull to the public, people will usaully understand;) I mean all you would have to say is yes there was a problem but it is worked out and we are doing are best to satisfy OUR valuable costumers, and those people that have issues were sorry and thanks for being patient with us and we appreciate all of are fans. IMHO I think MS was replacing the broken consoles with refurbished ones and that is why you are seeing people on there 4th or 11th xbox but who knows.
@porktree – that must be some spam filter. I’ve submitted the same multiparagraph reply every six or eight hours, it’s never made it yet. And i’ve reread it for naughty-sounding words and everything.
well, since that got through, let’s try again
–
I read Dave’s response and can appreciate his comments and stance. One of the thing I think Tycho was getting at is that while many corporate-ish bloggers folks may claim a huge interest in getting feedback, there are those “chicken-stuff” restrictions Dave speaks of related to _how_ the feedback is getting addressed.
I understand transparency is impossible, but even translucency appears to be hard. Look at the furor around the pricing of GH songpacks (for the record I have no interest in GH, btw, so don’t care) – so many replies from different blog outlets (including the podcasts) were really boiled down to “we’re listening” or “it’s not something we set” or “it’s not something we can talk about”.
Listening to the GSBlog guys (whose ‘cast I often enjoy due to their good natured ribbing and jesting), it sometimes feels like they’re embarrassed they’re unable to address a question to the satisfaction of their readers/listeners. They want to, but they’re hamstrung or they can’t give ‘the real dirt’, or they could genuinely disagree but can’t voice that opinion because hey – who signs their paycheques? You can really read the frustration of those readers who interpret a “no comment” kind of response as a “no action taken” response. The rhetoric of these commentators ends up poisoning the rep of the people trying to help. Maybe they need some kind of indemnity agreement so they can be less guarded?
Initiatives come in waves. But after the beach has been disrupted, a new initiative comes along and resets it. For example, there was a large call of the XBLM ten commandments. Many members of the public came back with all kinds of feedback and suggestions and comments. And then it just disappeared. We don’t know if BigVIP picked the best ten and posted them outside his office door, or if guidelines to publishers were rewritten to accommodate these expressed ideas from the consumers, etc. Sure, we got the lowdown on size changes for XBLA games and the extra achievement points. But silence on the “features/cheats free on other consoles should be free on the 360″ *cough*EA*cough*, or many of the other suggestions.
The recent XBLA call to action – there was a reply on Edery’s blog, which was good to see. Then nothing. Maybe the signal to noise of all the comments overwhelmed further response. But it would be cool to know that some of the many suggestions there (even the little ones) are being acted on even a “near/far” list or “top ten things we heard” – there are always quick hits that can be found out there. Folks like myself wonder if MS has analysis paralysis sometimes – they solicit feedback, get all kinds back and then it seems ages before they act on it (or they had a great idea, like the disc title in the tray, and it disappears for whatever reason).
In any case, I’m all for the blogging, and often the passion shows. So long as it’s passion and not blind evangelism or a glorified press release feed.
@devsterC:
Same thing happened to me, but I said something similar to Maynard, and his post got through. So I’m thinking spam-filter, not sinister.
Oz, I like that MS employees blog like this, and I don’t see it as a marketing ploy. There’s just not enough "Gee Golly Whiz Wow" posts to consider it a marketing ploy.
My comments were sucked up in the 12 hr comment black hole that appeared a few hours after this article was posted. Shame too. Although I’m skeptical the first comment I make that’s dropped by the site was also a very critical one. Coincidence?
Hi All – I’m actually on vacation in New York for a few days, and indeed the spam filter sucked up a bunch of stuff. Just posting this, and will release all the comments right afterword! If you think it mysteriously was made to disappear, go look again – it’ll be in there somewhere.
this is ms blog written by a m$ idiot so expect those idiots to cast positively on their products
HA!
Wow, now I’m sheepish about inflicting my thoughts on everyone a half dozen times.
Have a good vacation Ozy – don’t forget to go to Rupert’s deli so you can bug e about it.
I don’t mind when the author (Like Ozy, Major Nelson, and any other corporate bloggers) tells the reader that they’re biased because of where they work. Chances are that if you’re reading this blog you’re either a 360/MS fan or a troll. To tell yourself that they’re not going to be biased is just being ignorant.
I read Ozymandias.com because I’m curious as to what a MS employee has to say on different things in the industry. Do I think he’s going to be more lenient on Microsoft? Of course. But that doesn’t stop me from enjoying what he has to say and if you don’t like that, and I mean that for any corporate blog be it the Playstation blog, Major Nelson, Ozy, etc. then you should stop trolling and just leave it alone.
Cheers for letting all our comments back up Ozy.
I believe I may not have been clear enough in my original post, about what I interpreted Jerry’s "criticism" to be.
Jerry was questioning MS’s overall "support" at this stage in the 360’s life. At this stage the "phalanx" of blogs – seems to be the front line, which doesn’t seem terribly ambitious – and it leaves a lot on the shoulders of individual bloggers, who, to be fair – shouldn’t have to carry the whole weight of any company. Us internetz/message board/community type people lap it up, and especially appreciate the fact that the respective bloggers don’t "shill" too hard, and seem like decent people – but the blog approach shouldn’t be seen to replace mainstream saturation marketing. The marekting that non-internetz/messsage board/community Joe Q Public sees and responds to.
Anyway – hope I was clearer – keep up the good work on the frontline Ozy – hopefully your reinforcements (ie. media blitz) will arrive soon.