Jul 18 / Ozymandias

Playstation 3 CPU Speed Downgrade Rumor – Redux

game-hardware, game-journalism, gaming-industry, playstation-3, sony

Remember my earlier post dissecting an alleged PS3 Rude Q&A? There’s just something about a finely honed – yet evasive – turn of phrase that sets the Spidey-sense tingling, and I’m getting that feeling all over again around the rumor of the Playstation 3’s main CPU speed being downgraded.

First a bit of history. Back in June Kotaku posted an IM conversation with an alleged PS3 developer. That developer stated that CELL yields were low, and that the already reduced 3.2 GHz CPU speed (from a promised 3.5 GHz) could end up being as low as 2.8 GHz. (He also stated that there would likely be an external power supply, which I 100% believe to be the case.) Anyway, at the time I found the conversation a fascinating read because it struck me as very credible.

I don’t know how much you know about the CPU manufacturing process, but a good summary can be found here. The key aspect I want to highlight is that any new manufacturing process has a ramp-up period where a lot of sub-par or dud units are made. This is why new CPUs from AMD, Intel, and IBM are always more expensive and hard to find early on. It’s simply a matter of supply and demand, and the supply tends to be a lot less early on because yields haven’t been perfected yet. Every silicon manufacturer faces this issue, and IBM (and hence Sony) also faced this issue when manufacturing the CELL processor. The majority of CPUs off the line were likely subpar or duds, and fewer than desired would run at the target speed. (What that target speed was is a matter of debate, but if you look back over the last few years of Sony announcements the CELL was originally targeted to run at 4 GHz+, dropped to 3.5 GHz, and then dropped to 3.2 GHz.) Because of this, it’s extremely likely early Sony development kits didn’t run at full speed. Any game developer will tell you that this is very common in console development, so it’s not necessarily a negative. The key is to accurately tell developers what the final silicon would run at so they can target their games appropriately. Anyway, to wrap up this little bit of history, Gamesradar also picked up on the rumor a few days later, and the web’s message boards were set aflame.

Several days later Sony’s PR team swung into action, and stated the following:

“Developers have been working with PS3 dev kits for anywhere between eight and 12 months, and to suggest that we’d now take the decision to downgrade the hardware at such a late stage, is, well, ridiculous.”

Remember my spidey-sense? Read the above statement carefully, and notice the finely-crafted wording. In particular, notice that the response specifically discusses PS3 dev kits, and doesn’t mention final retail hardware – this is key, as we’ll see later. Summarized, it states that the suggestion Sony would “downgrade the hardware [PS3 dev kits] at such a late stage” is ridiculous.

Fair enough. While not necessarily “ridiculous,” it would be an immense PR blow to drop the system’s speed at this late point. That said, think back to the conversation we just had about CPU yields, and how it’s extremely likely early PS3 dev kits were running at a slower speed. What if that slower speed were, say, 2.8 GHz? And what if Sony had intended to upgrade the CPU but found it couldn’t due to poor yields? Then the fine bit of word-mongering above suddenly makes a ton of sense. Sony never technically downgraded the development kits because they were always at this speed… but the end result is a effective downgrade to the final, shipping, retail systems because this is what developers have to target their games to. And once the console ships at a certain clock-speed, it’s fixed for the life of the console – there are no do-overs.

I think I’ve made my disappointment about game journalism abundantly clear, and unfortunately, it appears none of the press picked up on this verbal dodging. In fact, it appears many sites just ran with the Sony party line and promptly forgot about it.

So where does this leave us? Simply put, I believe the primary CPU in the Playstation 3 (the PPE, or PowerPC-based CPU) currently runs at 2.8 GHz in game development kits, and that final retail consoles will also reflect that lowered speed. It’s my hope that some of the gaming press might use their contacts and ask developers the very specific question of how fast the CELL runs – my guess it’s slower than we all might hope. We’ll find out in the end, even if it’s in Fall when the box will (supposedly) ship. But it would sure be interesting to find out beforehand.

Oh, and the final quote of interest?

“Worse still is the suggestion that we couldn’t fit all the technical components into a plastic box.”

I think you fit everything into a plastic box, Sir… but then it melted.

[Edit: digg this article if you found it interesting!]

bean

Fun read, interesting theory, and ultimately rumor-mongering. :)
Loraan

Interesting stuff. I wouldn’t be too surprised if they would have some initial clock speed problems, since it sounds like the yield on the Cell is going to be [url=http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA6350202.html?industryid=21365&www.reghardware.co.uk]rather low[/url]… around 10 – 20% (although the interview also makes it sound like this is to be expected). A low yield is going to mean that a slower clock speed and Cells with fewer operating SPEs are going to be pretty tempting to Sony to keep the costs under control.

I wonder what the yield is on your garden variety PowerPC or Intel processor these days.
Nocebo

Wow, it just gets worse and worse for sony, I dont blame Mark DeLoura for leaving. It almost appears he is running away while he still can – with dignity.
http://live.xbox.com/member/GhettoLevis Ghetto Levis

As much as I dislike the politics (be it price or press) behind the PS3, I also believe that final speed of the cpu isn’t *that* important. It’s important what the developers do with it – and if they can do miracles out of a – what was it, 300MHz PS2 Chip? – they can do wonders with a 2800MHz Chip as well.

And about the statement: “Worse still is the suggestion that we couldn’t fit all the technical components into a plastic box."

Yes, they could. They just had to make the box that much bigger, I believe.

Now lets forget the cpu specs and lets complain some more about the ridiculous price.
http://mgfs.spaces.msn.com/PersonalSpace.aspx Mark

Sony under delivering, surely not!

If it does come to fruition that you are correct I can’t see it making a huge difference. BTW you say that onece the PS3 ships there’s no way to increase the speed but I thought the PSP is supposedly capped in performance and later this year it will be uncapped by a firmware update could they not do the same with the PS3?

Very interesting blog, thanks.
http://www.jasoncross.org JasonC

I’ve been in the same boat with regards to the PS3 specs since its first unveiling, and lo and behold, they’ve dropped several features since then (dual HDMI, 7 controllers, and so on). They’ve also made the unit itself much larger (larger than the original Xbox) and loaded it with holes. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the final units ran at 2.8GHz.

But Sony might pull the same sort of misleading marketing they do with the PSP. The PSP’s CPU can clock from 1 to 333MHz, but 333MHz is too hot and too power-hungry so Sony has it "locked down" at 222MHz. No PSP software (outside of some clever end-user hacks) run the CPU above 222MHz. And this directly reduces the speed of the GPU by a third as well, since it runs in a syncrhonous fashion with the CPU clock and its bus.

Sony still sells the PSP as having a 333MHz CPU, though. Why? Well, it’s technically *is* a 333MHz CPU, just one that will never run more than 2/3rds that fast.

Will they market the PS3 as having a 3.2GHz CPU, and simply forbid it from ever running over 2.8GHz?
http://playstation3.geekyblogs.com Andy Carroll

Hi

So, is that what happened with the XBox 360? Does that run at less than the specified speed? Surely Microsoft faced the same issues, hence the lack of supply at the 360 launch.

You can’t have this both ways. Either the Cell yields are low due to the lack of chips which meet the specs, or that Sony are using chips which do not meet the specs to increase the yield. Which is it, and since when are you involved in Sony’s corporate decision making?

I own an XBox 360. Frankly I expect more from Microsoft employees than this. Why not discuss backwards compatability, and the fact that only a fraction of XBox games work on the 360, and that the PS3 ‘reportedly’ has less than 40 PS1 games which will not play?
Andy Carroll’s Dad

Son, don’t pretend you’re an Xbox fanboy that is disappointed w/ back compat. That automatically flags you as an upset PS3 fanboy.

Apparently you don’t seem to grasp what the author of this article is saying. He’s saying that the CELL yields are especially bad, and that the clock frequency will need to be left at the 2.8Ghz that the dev kits are currently using (Devs are used to building games on sub-par dev kits and develop their games based on the target speed of the final hardware).

Microsoft’s issues with Xbox 360 supply had nothing to do with CPU yields. They weren’t getting enough DDR3 memory chips from Infineon.
http://xbox360.geekyblogs.com Andy Carroll’s Dads Dad

Actually, Andy is kind of neutral about the whole thing, but he just doesn’t like to see all the bitching going on about stuff that is not factual.

Whether the cell yields are high enough or not to provide enough chips of the correct speed for the launch is not known, and all of this rumour mongering comes from some inferred vague comment from an IBM engineer who actually said that it was all normal and just how it goes.

As far as back compat goes, then Andy was just pointing out that there are plenty of things which are not perfect about the 360, and perhaps some people could spend time more productively by fixing those, rather than trying to persuade an already bored audience that the Sony will be downgraded, a fact they have no clue about.

Gramps.
http://spaces.msn.com/feelz-good/ Nick, Feelz Good

umm…didn’t Sony publicly say this rumor was false weeks ago? I’m pretty sure they did. Of course it’s not like I believe anything Sony officially claims, if they told the truth my PS1 would play movies and my PS2 would have Toy Story-like graphics.
Ozymandias

The only statement I have ever found from Sony on the speed downgrade rumor is referred to in the article above. As a reference, that article can also be found here: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=65545

As far as I can tell this is the *only* statement Sony has made on this matter. If anyone has any other statements from Sony on this subject that are not variants of the Eurogamer quote above, I’d love to see it! I will happily update the article and point to it as well.
Ozymandias

Regarding JasonC’s comment (quoted below):

"But Sony might pull the same sort of misleading marketing they do with the PSP. The PSP’s CPU can clock from 1 to 333MHz, but 333MHz is too hot and too power-hungry so Sony has it "locked down" at 222MHz. No PSP software (outside of some clever end-user hacks) run the CPU above 222MHz. And this directly reduces the speed of the GPU by a third as well, since it runs in a syncrhonous fashion with the CPU clock and its bus.

Sony still sells the PSP as having a 333MHz CPU, though. Why? Well, it’s technically *is* a 333MHz CPU, just one that will never run more than 2/3rds that fast.

Will they market the PS3 as having a 3.2GHz CPU, and simply forbid it from ever running over 2.8GHz?"

It’s an interesting question but I’m not sure I personally think it’ll fly. By this argument a CPU company could market a product as having the highest clockspeed it ever attained and I’m sure the consumer backlash would be horrendous.

Leaning on our old friend Occam’s Razor, I suspect what’s more likely is the CPU speed dropped and Sony is trying to avoid calling attention to it. I suppose we will find out eventually!
Jesus

lol, You can have your theories one way or another. Sony came out with an article saying there wount be any downgrades. Keeping gettin your hopes up 360 Fanboys.

You guys have been trying to downgrade the PlayStation 3 for months now, reason behind this i think is the fact that you guys are afraid of the PlayStation 3. PS3 is expensive for good reasons, not for being downgraded but for actually being NEXT GENERATION. PS3 contains all of the next gen hardware and that is a true next gen console and i dont mind spending the extra $100 bucks on.
HcC

Andy Carroll is definately an upset ps3 fanboy. He just rolled a giant ball of garbage in here with that post and I think it’s getting bigger.

Nice comment JasonC. I don’t think they could even expect all units to run at 3.2ghz either way, so for quality control they must expect it to run at a slower speed.

I think the issue with Sony is how they’re going about this. Promising something that has even the slightest chance of not happening is bad business. Also, who goes in front of a large crowd, representing a large company and it’s product, and boasts about winning in sales. They’re acting like kids.

For me, I hope they do come up with a good product and good games so I’ll have one more thing to help expand my pizza and beer belly. The decision to buy a console isn’t based on a difference of 400mhz (until there’s homebrew …) but how that console performs the tasks that its company says it can. The mass majority of people will be looking at screenshots and videos of gameplay online and in stores, playing demos, and then making a decision to drop a thousand bucks on a console and a few games. I know that’s what I’ll do.
eat,sit and die xD

wow.. the xbox360 fanboys are really getting desperate.. i can smell ur fears bi*ches -_-

it seems that MS got the media owned and locked down, with all the s*it talking against sony lately.

its kinda funny how they NOT focus on all the dirty work MS has been/is doing

but stay true brothers, we got the forums and eachothers to bring truth to light

xD

and to say that the corp heads @ sony are greedy and at the same time having no problems playing on a xbox360 is truly patethic and shows just what an idiot of a consumer you are.

IF U ARE A HIPPIE AND DONT LIKE CAPITALISM AND DONT WANT TO SUPPORT "GREEDY" COMPANIES, THE BEST BET IS TO NEVER EVER BUY A CONSOLE, AND GO EAT A D… AND DYE, ur hair

what?!? you think the leaders @ MS are angel-like girlscouts with halos around their heads or something?

in FACT Microsoft is the dirtiest,greediest and most arrogant company in the history of mankind

(read MS monopoly)

The day MS dies, will truly be a glorious one for the free world

and COME ON who believes this retarded excuse for a blogpost anyways?
Huntr

All this talk about Sony downgrading specs is truly nonsense, and as Jesus said… "You guys (Xbox 360 fanboys) have been trying to downgrade the PlayStation 3 for months now, reason behind this I think is the fact that you guys are afraid of the PlayStation 3"…I couldn’t have said it better myself. And to those who put the system down, if you don’t like it, don’t buy it, it’s really that simple…but when you realize how silly it is to be loyal to a company/brand that don’t/can’t offer what the other does, you are the ones who are at a loss. Have a nice day, cos I know I will be ejoying my PS3 come November 17th.
Dan (deathtok)

About the PSP clock. It’s a variable CPU that Sony has locked as you stated. But consider that Nintendo released various models of the Gameboy that were all small upgrades over time. Sony’s big plan may be to unlock the CPU in the future and it’s a "free upgrade" to anyone that owns the PSP and future software can take advantage of it.

If it were unlocked at the beginning then it wouldn’t seem new next year. Ultimately it provides to the longevity of the system and keeps it under spec (clockwise) of the PS2 before the end of the console’s lifespan.

Just a thought.
cell

rumors, rumors, rumors. Guys when are you going to grow up. Its quite simple if you dont like a console, then dont buy it, and stop bi*ching about it. Especially those MS fan boys, who have spent their last year researching ways to make the PS3 seem less the the 360. It almost seems like MS hired a whole bunch of micellaneous point dexters, with the sole purpose of making sure no one buys a PS3 come November. Why is it that no MS official representative has ever OFFICIALLY stated that 360 is better then PS3?, but you have every MS fan bragging that the xbos is better then PS3. So all of the sudden consumers no better then the manufacturer.
HcC

So the ball gets bigger and bigger.
cell 2

rumors are like bananas, they come in yellow bunches. Look if you feel like you were rip off by buying a 360, then just trade it in for a PS3 reservation. That is if your lucky enough for any store to take that piece of trash back. We ALL KNOW the PS3 has better specs, we ALL KNOW that the PS3 is the only TRUE nex gen console, why because it has the latest hardware in all aspects, something the Wii and mainly the 360 dont have. Somehow xbox 360 technollogy remainds of 2003(it plays DVD’s, connects to the net, its has 2.4GHZ wireless tech, it uses S-video or component for best picture quality).People this is late 2006 c’mon.
Ozymandias

So can anyone point to a Sony rebuttal on the potential speed drop that *doesn’t* source from this Eurogamer link?

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=65545

Lots of people claiming Sony refuted this, but nobody is posting any links.
Laner

"Toy Story in real-time!!!!11"
Yo-mega

These Sony fans are saying Xboxers are getting worried. The truth is we’re not! Theres too many great games on the 360 and comming, to give a damn about being worried. The only ones getting defensive are the Sony fanboys. Hey and why would’nt they, when all Sony seems to do is drop features.
Adversary

^Dude, I could count the great games on Xbox360 on one hand. Hell, I could count the great games for Xbox on one hand. Even MS knows they only had a few GREAT games, and that’s why their backwards compatability seems so lacking. As for great games coming out, how the hell would you know? A game’s not great until you’ve played it.

Admittedly, by that very same account, a system isn’t great until you’ve played it either. The 360 is great. I own one. I’m happy with it. It offers reliable technology at a solid price with respectable features and functionality. Just like a straight-C American school student…

However! Even operating at HALF its currently claimed capacity, the PS3 would STILL outperform a 360 running at MAX capacity by a couple hundredths of a TFLOP. And I highly doubt that Sony would F-up so bad as to do that.

As for the CPU being clocked slower, so what? 7 processors running at 2.8 using a distributed workload architecture is still retarded-fast. The 3.2s in the 360 currently use an overflow architecture more suited to threading, which is slightly less efficient (although this will change when developers become accustomed to developing for multi-core systems).

Anyway, this is going to be a close war between the 360 and PS3. Everybody’ll probably buy one or the other, and a Wii… Which means that the Wii has twice the projected install base over the other companies.

That’s kinda nice isn’t it? It’s been awhile since Nintendo made anything worth owning (franchises be damned).
Street Killaz

VIVA LA XBOX360…
Cris

I’m keen to see the PS3 come out, but just to correct the last poster, it’s not actually 7 processors running at 2.8Ghz in the same way as the Core Duos have 2 processors. The PS3 has one CPU and a whole bunch of Vector Processing units.

Granted, it *should* be faster, but the software is another variable, and if it’s really complicated to program for then it might not use all the power.

It’s like a Formula 1 car. It might have 900 Horsepower and weigh less than half a tonne, but if you can’t get the power down with the right tyres, then it means nothing.

Can everyone just let time tell already? Based on the PSP, i fear the games will be ok, but unoriginal, regarless of performance.
Adversary

The CPU in the PS3 is designed to distribute the workload between the other 6 SPEs, hence the term "distributed workload architecture". This is a technique often used in modern supercomputer theory, and it works quite well. It’s just that most developers have never developed for a supercomputer and are used to designing for "overflow architecture" designs, such as hyperthreading. I can’t recall if the 360s processors are merely hyperthreaded, or actually dual-cored, but clearly software developers are already leaning towards distributed computing even this early in its inception as a consumer electronic function.
Foobar

Yikes Ozy. Have you read and understood the poem that you have named yourself for ? Clue: it’s about the futility of hubris…telling eh ?
Exile

I really don’t care bout any of this. I’ve got a 360, and I’ll buy a PS3. Halo rocks! Final Fantasy rocks! Gran Turismo rocks! Project Gotham rocks!

See, it’s got nothing to do with the console, but everything to do with the games.

GAMES MAKE THE CONSOLE, NOT VICE VERSA
gamp

Joer!!! que fake mas gordooooo!!!!

Ya no saben como hacer daño a sony, arriba Sony.

Saludos.
idiots abound

I can’t believe how ignorant so many posts are on this blog.

First, the 360 and the PS3 will be about the same. Sure the 360 will have better graphics because of it’s graphics card is actually based on new technology where as the RSX is old (and getting older sitting on the shelf). But the PS3 will have better physix due to the cells math power.

Second the 360 has 3 cores (true cores) and each core has 2 true threads (not just hyper threading). This allows the 360 to stream music from my server while playing a game with no interruption whatsoever. The PS3′s single core will need to orchestrate an SPE to do similar functions. So it will have to multi-task its core to do this and play the game. But will it work? Of course it will. Both 360 and PS3 will have plenty of next-gen power.

For me it comes down to the online experience and the controller. So whoever gives me the best gameplay experience will be my preferred console.
WiiPS360

All this fanboy crap is getting old, I could understand it a little more if the PS3 was sitting in people’s living rooms right now, but it isn’t. How many fanboys (360 or PS3) have played a PS3 game, which would give them a basis of comparison? I thought so, howling at the moon over something you’ve never used shows just how biased you are. I don’t own a 360, and I don’t plan buy one or a PS3 until they are both out. This is like friggen coke and pepsi, they’re both pretty much the same, but most prefer one or the other. I like coke better, but if I’m thirsty and there’s no coke to be had, I’m not gonna turn down a pepsi! Hell, I’d even drink a RC (Wii)! Don’t let being a fanboy leave you thirsty for good games.
http://www.xboxyde.com Acert93

Xenon was running at 2.8GHz in Aug of 2005. Did that mean the final 360′s would ship at 2.8GHz? No.
Ozymandias

"Xenon was running at 2.8GHz in Aug of 2005. Did that mean the final 360′s would ship at 2.8GHz? No."

It all depends on your CPU yields when you need to start manufacturing retail units (where the vast majority of parts obviously go).

If I had to summarize the argument that started this whole thread, it would simply be that the "refutation" of a speed drop was fishily worded and opens up the possibility of the rumor being true. Note that even today (after asking several times), no one has been able to supply any other refutation than the original Eurogamer source and quotes.

Anyone?
Xboy12

Idiots abound was absolutely right; these two cosoles will doubtless end up being the same and only the games and their content can ultimately decide whether or not a cocsole is worth your hard-earned money.
Teph

While I agree with some (that it really comes down to the games), I do think the rest (reguardless of what points they might or might not have made) need to realize that you need to stay on topic.

We all know that the ps3 has more theoretical power. Whoop-dee-doo.

We all know that the top industry hardware experts and anaylists AND developers say that the 360 is very much on par with the ps3 in capabilities. Great.

We know that many people have chosen a side and won’t be swayed. Whatever.

Why all this non-sense? Trolling this guy’s blog doesn’t change what we know, think, believe or want, so why come here just to start ***.

This is about reading into the known facts. We all do it. We all have our educated opinions on it. So voice THOSE opinions (like, the ones ON-TOPIC), and not you’re blind ‘PS3 ALL THE WAY!! 360 SUXORS!!’ ***.

With that said, there seems to be good indications that what he’s ASSUMING could be true. If you think otherwise, pitch in your relevant comments and proof. I think he’s on spot, and don’t doubt for a second that the Sony could do this. They’ve dropped every other feature… why not clockspeed as well?
http://teamhazmat.moonfruit.com Yellow Gorilla

I believe what you need to relly look at here is the people driving the machines that they are prducing. Microsoft Representatives that were on the Xbox Team will tell you, "There were some good days. There were some great days. On the other hand, there were some days that really worried me."

When a company like Microsoft makes a video game console, there’s an image behind it. Their drive comes from knowing what the future holds for the very company that they strive to make better. Xbox 360 will never be the greatest invention, equal of the light bulb. It will be the console that gave people the opportunity to have fun, and share their experiences with their friends the world over. Why are they having fun? Because the people behind the system knew what they would like in their own dream console. They made a concept, a vision on a board, and tried as hard as they could for 3 years to make what consumers would love most.

PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 have one MAIN difference. It’s not the technical power or the graphics in a game. It’s the people behind it. I hate to stomp on anybody’s day, but SONY is already regretting a system that hasn’t even launched. The Presient and CEO called it a "gamble" himself. You know why? It’s because SONY’s vision is, in the end, to make their chunk of the industry the largest chunk. You know that about 75-80% of SONY’s profit comes from the PlayStation brand?

Consider when you insult any part of Microsoft’s vision, that Sony has overpromised their technical specifications before. Microsoft did not. And 3rd party developers have very little choice but to develop for both the 360 and the PS3 because of a game we call "risk." Games will niether look nor play better on PlayStation 3 when compared to the Xbox 360. The controller has foreseeable problems, and the vision they had is not clear.

The Xbox Team had a vision, and everybody sees that it was spot on, given the tons of developer support. We’ve not only got games that won’t be coming to PlayStation 3, but a lot of them.

Sony is a fine company, going soon where other’s fear to tread. They are taking a risk that, in my own opinion, is far too big. A $500-$600 price range is not justifiable. Hence, you will see games on the PlayStation 3 that are truly not anymore brath-taking than their Xbox 360 counterparts.

I believe that Xbox 360 could rightfully have held that price point. Why? Because, with Xbox 360, there are no "hidden" costs. There is a subscription fee for services like Xbox Live because the consumer can’t be forced into the online service. Some people just can’t afford it, and so, that cost can’t be hidden in the console price, while it’s labeled as being "free." As well, you cannot add the cost of wireless networking into the figure. That would be rude! And, the components of the PlayStation 3 are going to have to be rather on the "not-the-best-quality" side of things. This is because of the Blu-Ray disc drive, Blutooth Wireless, and the whole rest. The Blu-Ray alone drives manufacturing costs way up because Blu-Ray is still not widely accepted, nor is it widely available.

On the other hand, Xbox 360′s components are all of great quality and give the consumer a great value, especially when the capabilities that expand the experience are taken through. Media Center Extender, custom sountracks, Multimedia capabilities, Chat, Friends, Xbox Live, games(hoo-rah!!), and the community at large, are the forces that drive the Xbox 360. We’re can already smell 10 million, but it’s not that we smell it because of greed. We smell it because we know that as soon as someone opens up that box, the next generation begins!
Adversary

^First off, I would absolutely LOVE to see where you got the figure stating that Sony makes 75-80% of its profits from Playstation, so I can go there and tell THEM how stupid that is. That’d be like saying that MS made any of their profits from the Xbox… They didn’t, by the way. Sony is a Consumer electronics GIANT! They also make movies sometimes (ahem, Spiderman).

That said, how can you claim that MSoft’s "vision" is better than Sony’s? Sony is still top dog, period. This is because up until now, Sony clearly understood the console market better than anyone. Only the future will tell with this next war.

The facts about the hardware are very straight forward. Sony has a more powerful and versatile machine launching, bar none. And the reason the graphics don’t look that much different between the two systems as it stands is because of developers, not the hardware. Also, you’re comparing second generation 360 games to first generation PS3 games. If they look roughly the same NOW… you put two and two together.

And obviously Sony is going to have a more robust online service. That’s just common sense. Some people say that theyre ripping off Live!, but then I say that live is ripping off gamespy, and gamespy’s ripping off battle net, etc. etc.

I could go on. I could point at numbers, and referrence real factoids and blah blah blah, but you clearly have your mind set on propaganda. I’ll save my breath. Unless you really want to discuss this…?
Murray

I dont really care about the rumours and so on that everybody is talking about. In the end all thats going to matter to most rational people is how good the games are. I have a 360. Ill probably get a PS3 after a year or so when the price comes down. I prefer the PS2 to the original X-Box by a long way. I have no loyalties to either company.

However I just wanted to comment on what I consider to be the most ridiculous comment made here:

"in FACT Microsoft is the dirtiest,greediest and most arrogant company in the history of mankind"

Why you decided to post this is beyond me. Why you insist on using the word fact at all, yet alone in capital letters, is even more confounding.

When you do as much for charity as Bill Gates you get to say that and have people take you seriously. Until then, youre just full of it.

Whether you like the 360 or you dont, thats irrelevant, Gates, and hence his company, deserves respect purely for that.
http://www.nophi.net Jim

"When you do as much for charity as Bill Gates you get to say that and have people take you seriously. Until then, youre just full of it."

except that isn’t Microsoft.

Bill Gates the philanthropist donates billions of dollars.

Microsoft the company uses aggressive strongarm monopoly tactics to take billions of dollars.
Lefty2k3

Yes! I noticed the very things you just talked about in this blog when the comments first came about. It’s totally overworded, it’s much easier and faster to say "Both of theose statements are wrong." But of course they may end up being right.

Wow….it appears the Ps3 fanboys/360 fanboys foudn the site first. Please PLEASE don’t turn this place into a warzone.

For anyone whoses doubt, why wouldn’t Sony just say "All of that isn’t true" It’s a lot faster to say!! You don’t invent a carefully worded statement like that without something to hide. It’s like when your a kid and do something bad and try to dance around the fact that it’s your fault.

I’m not as interested in a Ps3 as I used to be. E3 05 made me believe Ps3 was the second coming (People really should go watch the 05 Sony press conference, you will fell very cheated after that, Killzone anyone?).

Since then, they really haven’t been able to meet expectations. And that price…every company has it’s fanboys, but that’s a lot of extra money just for Metal Gear and Final Fantasy! I could write an book on why people like that hold innovation and original IP’s back. But not now.

They have what a potentially great launch (Resistance, Warhawk, SingStar, and lots of Multiplatform stuff). But these games need to SCREAM I’m worth an extra $200 bucks + how much more a Blu-Ray game will cost (Blu Ray is more money to make than a DVD)

It’s a wait and see game. It’s very exciting..
Tephlon

Adversary said: "First off, I would absolutely LOVE to see where you got the figure stating that Sony makes 75-80% of its profits from Playstation, so I can go there and tell THEM how stupid that is. That’d be like saying that MS made any of their profits from the Xbox… They didn’t, by the way. Sony is a Consumer electronics GIANT! They also make movies sometimes (ahem, Spiderman)."

Sony is a giant… but a giant that can’t sell their TV’s, stereos, car audio equippment, computers, and mp3 players to many people any more.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4380938.stm

I know I’ve read about it more than once, in more than one place, but this is all I can find at the moment.

I know it doesn’t say that the Games’ division makes %80 of its profit (obviously an exaggeration on the Gorilla’s part), but I know i’ve read reports of many fiscal quarter’s only PROFITABLE division at sony was their games division. Take it all how you will, but he’s basically right. Sony’s in the red in almost every department of the company, they’re losing marketshare to Samsung, Panasonic and others, in the TV market, mobile audio sales are down, they can’t give their mp3 players away…

No, no, I’m quite positive that the only thing sony’s got going for them at the moment is their game’s division… and now they’re gambling with that.

Adversary said: "That said, how can you claim that MSoft’s "vision" is better than Sony’s? Sony is still top dog, period. This is because up until now, Sony clearly understood the console market better than anyone."

While I think that your statement can definately be declared much more of an OPINION than fact, I do agree… to a degree. They’re top dog for NOW, but I think they’re resting much too much on their laurels than on much else. They can’t be said to have ‘pioneered’ a damn thing in the console space. They’ve made a lot of money, for sure. They’ve had good timing, for sure. But they’ve merely taken advantage of poor decisions by nintendo. I’m not sure if you can really take credit for making shitty products that just happen to come ahead due to the mistakes of your comptetitor, but either way it doesn’t hold much clout with me.

MS seems to have a firm vision of what they want out of their games division, and what they want for their customers. They havn’t delivered perfectly, but they do seem to be the good guy in the battle.

I just not much for arrogant companies who say I’ll buy their product no matter what the cost or broken promises, and even without games to go with it.

No thank you.

Adversary said: "The facts about the hardware are very straight forward. Sony has a more powerful and versatile machine launching, bar none. And the reason the graphics don’t look that much different between the two systems as it stands is because of developers, not the hardware. Also, you’re comparing second generation 360 games to first generation PS3 games. If they look roughly the same NOW… you put two and two together."

Acutally, many top hardware analysts don’t agree with you. Its been said that only at the very end of the playstation’s life cycle will you see any notable difference in the machines. Most the numbers supporting the PS3′s goodness are purely theoretical. Also remember that the cell processor is not a new idea, and its died in the past. You can’t count on it being the new ‘be all, end all’ of all processors.

Anandtech said: "…the performance difference from a CPU standpoint between the Xbox 360’s Xenon and the PS3’s Cell processor is basically a wash. &nb
Tephlon

Crap, sorry. I forgot to post my source for the Anandtech quote.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=1

There ya go!
Ozymandias

Thanks for posting sources for your discussions – always appreciated!
Arokh

Now, um.. I’m sorry to drop a complete bomb here. But it should also be mentioned how completely irrelevent Mhz/Ghz arguments have become in the current age of technology. lower Ghz speed AMD’s currently outperform Intel’s at pretty much every pricepoint the two companies compete at. (It should be mentioned the new Intel Core Duo 2 chipset is not only found at cheaper pricepoints and outperforms said AMD chips.)

If you were one to look deeply into the Cell technology and the Xenon technology, it’s really impossible to look at Ghz and determine wether it matters at all. And effectively, any computer savvy person realizes these days that processor clock speed is as good as irrelevent in this new broad multicore world. One has to consider so many other variables and these dies have become so complex that you can’t look at Xenon and see 3.2 ghz and look at a potential 2.8 ghz Cell and say that Xenos is faster. Which some people are naively trying to do. Just like most Sony fanboys will naively point out the supposed 3.5 ghz and say that PS3 will stomp the 360.

The argument here isn’t about which system performs better now. It’s about the longterm, and both companies/platforms have their own edge in different ways. I’m certain that Microsoft can quite likely update the 360 via live to utilize DX10 code if they really wanted too. I’d not be surprised if the Xenos GPU designed by ATI wasn’t made with the prospect of using DX10, Microsoft has certainly been working on DX10 for a long time, long enough to know about its coming before the 360 was finalized in hardware and released.

The Cell though, so vastly different is very likely not able to directly utilize these sort of standardized coding to make it easier on developers to make good games.

Which brings me to something, a sudden trend I’ve noticed with upcoming releases is that a lot of titles I’d expect to see come out for both PS3 and 360 are coming out only for one of them. And companies that previously eluded to coming out for both systems have renigged on those thoughts. Main reason being, the way Cell is designed is plain and simply so different and difficult to develop on that porting these games is a vast and costly undertaking that’s not worth the risk, compounded by Sony’s recent floundering. (Recent? They’ve been floundering in all aspects except fanboyism for the PS line for years.)

In any case, I own a 360. I’ll definitely be owning a Wii. (Dig you microsoft. X-box1 was my first love last-gen, with Cube close second) I seriously hope PS3 comes in last just to set Sony on the straight and narrow doing what they should do.

In this fight, I’m going for Wii #1 360 #2 PS3 #3. I intend to own all 3 regardless of cost.

But either way, Wii should just all get along.

And Sony should have some more perspective about what people really want. They’ve yet to make a good console. The only thing they’re good at is this sickening and honestly racist and bigotry of the Japanese culture. Point blank, they hate America. Don’t believe me? Try playing FFXI for 4 years.
Arokh

Now, um.. I’m sorry to drop a complete bomb here. But it should also be mentioned how completely irrelevent Mhz/Ghz arguments have become in the current age of technology. lower Ghz speed AMD’s currently outperform Intel’s at pretty much every pricepoint the two companies compete at. (It should be mentioned the new Intel Core Duo 2 chipset is not only found at cheaper pricepoints and outperforms said AMD chips.)

If you were one to look deeply into the Cell technology and the Xenon technology, it’s really impossible to look at Ghz and determine wether it matters at all. And effectively, any computer savvy person realizes these days that processor clock speed is as good as irrelevent in this new broad multicore world. One has to consider so many other variables and these dies have become so complex that you can’t look at Xenon and see 3.2 ghz and look at a potential 2.8 ghz Cell and say that Xenos is faster. Which some people are naively trying to do. Just like most Sony fanboys will naively point out the supposed 3.5 ghz and say that PS3 will stomp the 360.

The argument here isn’t about which system performs better now. It’s about the longterm, and both companies/platforms have their own edge in different ways. I’m certain that Microsoft can quite likely update the 360 via live to utilize DX10 code if they really wanted too. I’d not be surprised if the Xenos GPU designed by ATI wasn’t made with the prospect of using DX10, Microsoft has certainly been working on DX10 for a long time, long enough to know about its coming before the 360 was finalized in hardware and released.

The Cell though, so vastly different is very likely not able to directly utilize these sort of standardized coding to make it easier on developers to make good games.

Which brings me to something, a sudden trend I’ve noticed with upcoming releases is that a lot of titles I’d expect to see come out for both PS3 and 360 are coming out only for one of them. And companies that previously eluded to coming out for both systems have renigged on those thoughts. Main reason being, the way Cell is designed is plain and simply so different and difficult to develop on that porting these games is a vast and costly undertaking that’s not worth the risk, compounded by Sony’s recent floundering. (Recent? They’ve been floundering in all aspects except fanboyism for the PS line for years.)

In any case, I own a 360. I’ll definitely be owning a Wii. (Dig you microsoft. X-box1 was my first love last-gen, with Cube close second) I seriously hope PS3 comes in last just to set Sony on the straight and narrow doing what they should do.

In this fight, I’m going for Wii #1 360 #2 PS3 #3. I intend to own all 3 regardless of cost.

But either way, Wii should just all get along.

And Sony should have some more perspective about what people really want. They’ve yet to make a good console. The only thing they’re good at is this sickening and honestly racist and bigotry of the Japanese culture so the developers are willing to make games for their system, because gasp, they’re Japanese company. Point blank, most Japanese people are pretty open about the fact that they hate America. Don’t believe me? Try playing FFXI for 4 years.
phipscube

You Microsoft bloggers never give up stirring *** do you? Give it a rest with the propaganda. Even if it is "only" 2.8 GHz so what? So does that mean that its suddenly crapper than the Xbox 360′s 3.2 GHz? OF COURSE, YEAH YOUR RIGHT!!!…. ERRM NO!! Thats like saying a Pentium core duo running at 2Ghz is shitter than an AMD XP 3200 running at 2.065GHz.

But the facts right now are being blurred over and over again. STFU and WAIT. 2.8? 3.2? who really gives a *** when we are playing games?

Now get back to playing YOUR games instead of talking about how crap the PS3 is SUPPOSEDLY going to be.
philantr0py

"Have a nice day, cos I know I will be ejoying my PS3 come November 17th"

About the same time I’ll be Playing Gears of War.. for £39.99, and not having to worry about recouping the £430 I just spent on a console that has features I’ll hardly use – SD, Gigabit Ethernet AND Wireless in addition!? 60GB HDD, HDMI, PS1 Compatibilty? (wtf this is 2006 not 1996).

PS3 is good, but 2.8GHz is that hot these days, it’s one year on. And for those kidding themselves, next-gen has been out for almost a year now and you’ve been missing out. So keep expecting to be blowing away on November 17th..
xXLiKWiDXx

All you ps3 fanboys tearing this place up talking alot of smack do you truly think ps3 is gonna win the next generation? with the xbox360 with almost a 10 million console advantage by the holiday season.I really doubt.. so im a 360 fanboy i must admit i was thinking about purchasing a ps3 because im willing to try one but i got to research.There isnt really any blockbuster games coming for the ps3 i wana see a killer ap coming that isnt a sequal for the ps3? you guys have any idea why dont you tell me i would like to hear.How about the xbox360 you guys are saying there is just a handful of great games coming out how about i list a few. Gears of war,mass effect,too human,lost planet,halo 3,dead rising,saints row,huxley,crackdown,forza motorsport 2,fable 2,blue dragon, and bioshock.

Wow that was hard to swallow wasnt it and you know what else 9 of those 13 games are original titles which are gonna blow away any ps3 competition.Now im done with the games portion now about the ps3 and 360 specs and hardware i have nothing to say but look at some actual FACTS* http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=19237

Now you will see who has the advantage its a console that starts with an X take a guess.Now let me give you guys some info on the so called sony online service to kill xbox live.Sony telling people its gonna be free yea maybe free for the first 3 months or so thats about it.Sony isnt gonna lose money having a free online service first of all it cost money to keep servers up and running and restoring service and maintanance.So i suggest you ps3 people stop jumping up and down and take a seat.

On the blue ray vs. HDVD theres no chance in hell blue ray is gonna win.Do you really think people care about blue ray sony is basically making people pay for somehting they dont want.Why not stick to gaming which is the real reason people buy a system in the first place.Microsoft did a smart decision selling the hdvd player seprately allowing people to make a choice.Also why would people want to jump from dvd format to blue ray all of a sudden.Right now there are thousands of movies available for dvd.When the blue ray player maybe 30 im not sure but i know its not gonna surpass 100 thats for sure.

so hopefully i made things quiet clear for everyone sony and xbox360 fans and maybe sway some decisons and make sure u visit here for the ps3 and xbox360 specs as of july 7

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=19237
maynard

I own a 360, so my comments may be biased, but what bothers me the most about Sony is all of the lies and half-truths they tell to their potential customers. I feel this has continually hurt them in the market and it seems to all be coming to a head this generation.

The funniest post I’ve seen thus far is the one talking about how Sony’s online service will "obviously" be better than Live. Where are there ANY concrete details telling us what we’ll be getting with Sony’s service? Yeah… this will be free and that will be free, but even what’s supposedly free is vague. What they’ve told us so far basically amounts to absolutely nothing. Xbox Live Silver is free and you can play certain games with it, so what does that mean? With Sony, "basic" services will be free, just as they are with Silver. Don’t expect to get much, Sony lovers, from this "free" service. If it were that great, you’d have all the details already.

In the end, it looks like the 360 and PS3 will have 99% of the same games… and the games published by MS look 100 times better than anything Sony has planned or has shown so far.

Sure, you can knock MS for not having enough consoles at launch; and, sure, there is still a lack of titles for the system, but just wait… it’s going to be an awesome system for years to come. The PS3 will probably be pretty good, too, but I just don’t see how it’s not going to put the people who own it in the poor house.

And I absolutely agree with the post about the vision of the 2 companies for this gen. Sony has been extremely vague about what their vision is. "It’s the next-gen console… no, it’s a computer… no, it’s a blu-ray player… no, it’s a device for online services." Is it really, TRULY any of those things? Nobody knows because Sony can’t even really tell you yet! Maybe Sony can combine all of those services into one device, but will the services, by themselves, be any good?

Playstation 3 CPU Speed Downgrade Rumor – Redux

Tag Cloud

Recent Posts

Blogroll

The Basics

Links

Categories

Pages

Archives

Search