PS3 Online being Supported by Xfire… Not as Cool as it Seems
Some interesting news today about Xfire providing PS3 games technology to connect to their network. The best interview is from Next Generation (with a couple of key quotes):
Next-Gen: First of all, a lot of gamers are wondering if this Xfire deal will extend beyond SOE and Dark Kingdom…
Mike Cassidy: There are two deals here, really. There’s one deal between us and SOE, and there’s one deal between us and Sony Computer Entertainment. The deal with SCE is a tools and middleware license that lets us basically build a plug-in for any PS3 game. Then we need to work with the publishers, and the publishers use that middleware to enable Xfire functionality in their games.
<snip>
Aside from Xfire being so popular and increasingly established, why is Sony Computer Entertainment going outside to provide online community features for PS3 games?
Xfire is not replacing SCE’s PlayStation Network Platform at all. They have their own network platform that they will describe and roll out. What we’re doing is complementary. Sony itself was interested in working with us because we have such a large PC community and since so many PC gamers also play console games—I think for us, 74 percent of our 5 million users play console games too—they use it as a nice segue to reach into the gamers of the PC world who already have PC Xfire accounts.
…I think what we’re doing is providing some features and what they’re doing is providing some features that we don’t do at all. We don’t do paid digital downloads and we don’t do a lot of things like that. There are also some publishers that have no interest in the Xfire solution, which is fine. But there are some publishers that are like, “Great. We want to plug into the 5 million-user Xfire community.” We will work with Sony’s PlayStation Network Platform…
This is actually really good news for PS3 owners as it’s the first credible online service technology to raise its head up from the murkiness around launch. Frankly, I expected Sony to purchase XFire a year or so back to jumpstart their efforts – sadly, Viacom beat them to it. The good news is that enabling an Xfire plugin will allow some (not all) PS3 games to be connected to the Xfire network (and hence to their brethren on the PC). Kudos for that!
The bad news? This definitely isn’t what Sony would have wanted to do if they had other options. What we end up with is a bit of a mishmash of online accounts, logins, and services. For example, now when I play a PS3 title I simply can’t depend on having a single Friends list. Sony will manage the “master” list, which should have presence in every PS3 title, and Xfire will be a plugin that some publishers integrate into some games. This means gamers can’t depend on finding their friends in one place (if the game even supports Xfire). The possibility exists that Sony might do a larger deal to integrate Xfire into every PS3 title, but frankly, they should have simply swallowed their pride and purchased Xfire a long time ago and made it their default backend technology.
Another challenge is that Xfire is now effectively middleware – and that’s not free. Had Sony purchased and integrated Xfire into their SDK I could see the effective cost of integration being “free” to publishers. Now, unfortunately, each and every publisher has to look at their budget and decide whether adding a second online service/friends list/presence is worth it. I have no idea what Xfire’s licensing costs are, but whatever it is, it’s not free – Sony lost that opportunity. And that means publishers have to decide whether to spend extra dollars, effort, and time in an era when game costs are already spiraling higher and higher.
Sadly, this appears to be an artifact of Sony’s online service being late to the game and likely underwhelming. Don’t take my word for it – just wait a short month or so and see what Sony delivers for their “free online service” (vs. any Xfire capability). I’ll bet you a dollar it’s underwhelming, and will highlight just how desperately this Xfire deal was needed (even with all the issues around it).
Related posts:
36 Comments
Comments are closed.
Ozymandias, do you know whether the upcoming HD-DVD drive will feature a Ricoh-style combo lens with a diffraction layer? Specifically, I’m wondering if Microsoft is looking ahead and future proofing the device so that it could potentially be made into a combo HD-DVD / BluRay player with a system software update.
Seems to me that the price for such a dual-read lens system would not be much more than a single-read lens…and the opportunity to be able to provide both formats would be a pretty big weapon.
I couldn’t comment if I did know, but as far as I know these technologies are a few years out. Ie, I suspect we’ll see hardware (from all sorts of people) in 2007+.
seems pretty cool for PS3 at first, but all the complications behind it can get pretty confusing. Seems like it will ultimately end up a hassle for the user.
Does the HD DVD player allow you to watch standard DVDs upscaled to 720p?
It’s just confusing, much like most everything you hear about the PS3 lately. No matter what they announce about their online service, bottom line is MS is years ahead.
What’s with all the off-topic HD-DVD questions? Sheesh!
—
Anybody is welcome to correct me if my chronology is off, but the original XBox launched in November of 2001, and XBox Live started up in late 2002. A persistent online service was grassroots at the time, but still without precedence (especially in consoles). If I recall correctly, XBL was the first service to say "Broadband or bust" regarding connection speed… the implementation of Playstation Online that was being used for the PS2 allowed and still allows, to my knowledge, 56K modem dial-up access.
And, if I recall correctly, there were a lot of disenfranchised dial-up users that wanted to use the services on XBL, but didn’t upgrade to a faster connection. Still, rules were rules. It did OK for itself, too… especially since game devs had updated SDKs to incorporate the connection. Needed work to be sure, but it was a great start.
Halo 2 was the next big step forward for most online gamers. Bungie, having clsoer contact to Microsoft than most other game developers at the time, were able to work closely with XBL architects and refine the service into an esily accessible list with Friends, Players, and Clan section to help organize online contacts. From what I heard, this was the beginning model for the current version of XBox Live and the 360 dashboard.
Amazing stuff, IMO; of course, I’m easily amused.
To be sure, the guide button (pure genius) on the controller and the way the services are accessible is brilliant. I’m interested to see what the PLAYSTATION 3 can do to stay competitive in the growing field of online gameplay. If I had to guess, I’d say it’ll take them a while before they can create something on the same level as what XBL is nowadays.
Then, on top of Xfire and all the other hurdles they’ve set up, they just need to worry about how to make older games that people could use 56K modems to connect with in their back library comaptible with the new service. Tricky.
PalGringo, you nailed it my friend!
The PS2 online "functionality" was pretty bad, and was still so even up to the latest online game to be released on the PS2. Youd think one of the biggest online PS2 titles to exist, SOCOM, would have figured it out. But, as of SOCOM 3, they still were years and years behind the times.
I fear that PS3 is going to be the same thing. Every game is going to have its own browser, friends list (if at all), and technology to play online. This means that not every game will play the same online. The one thing Ive come to rely heavily on is that every Xbox (and 360) game just feels the same when playing online, I dont have to think, I just pop on and play.
And now, with microtransactions being the wave of the next-gen (unfortunately) – its going to be even more difficult for Sony to convince gamers to pay extra for stuff when its so inconvenient to them. Ive paid for crap on the XBL Marketplace that I would NEVER EVER have bothered with, if I didnt have a unified CC information already stored on my account. To have to enter this crap every time I get involved with a new game (on the PS3) is just not going to happen. Everyone knows that impulse purchasing is huge, and to have a consumer the chance to second guess while they spend 15 minutes "typing" their CC information using a d-pad – well it just isnt gonna happen. (too bad for Sony, good for MS)
I never thought that Sony would ever come close to matching XBL.
You really are far too negative on Sony. You criticize them for doing too little too late, but we don’t really know what they’re going to do with online gaming and the PS3…and since the PS2 was last generation it’s a little late to still be holding that over their heads. They have a new chance, and yes, they may botch it…but the only thing we can really do at this point is wait and see. Maybe the Xfire friends list will incorporate with the Sony friends list, maybe the Xfire infrastructure won’t even include a friends list and just serve other functions instead…there is just no way to tell at this point, and it’s a little early to be criticizing them on speculation.
"I fear that PS3 is going to be the same thing. Every game is going to have its own browser, friends list (if at all), and technology to play online."
..the PS3 OS houses a universal friend’s list. This was shown at TGS. There may be others within games that are games specific, I don’t know, but there is a core friends list you can access from within any game by hitting the middle ‘PS’ button. I would expect lobbies and such to be game specific, but then they should be IMO (and I believe this is how it is on Live also, albeit there is one library from MS for that that everyone seems to use.)
Re. your bet regarding PS3 online being ‘underwhelming’ – is this like your previous 1080p bet that fell to pieces once we got to TGS?
I think MS bloggers should perhaps refrain from making bets on PS3 after that! But seriously, I don’t think expectations for PS3 Online are particularly high, starting out at least, so I don’t know how much room there is for disappointment.
You can already play DVDs upscaled to 720P using the Xbox360. You have to have it connected to your display via the VGA cable to enable the feature. It is verboten to allow such a thing to work over component cables, apparently.
has EA announced anything about PS3 Madden online? i’m sure they are going to skip the X-Fire solution and run it themselves.
Ozymandias, you know I just read your blog today and was thinking that on our own blog we touched upon some of the same points. Maybe you could check it out and give me some feedback on some of the things that I’ve mentioned in it. bg21.bloggerteam.com
Ozymandias you suck ass big time !!
To follow up on some comments being made by various people above, Sony has confirmed that PS3 will have a universal login for the online service, and a universal buddy list, all embedded in the XMB/OS. In terms of commerce, they haven’t totally clarified that aspect yet, but at E3 this year they did confirm that the system will use "Playstation Points" with cards you can buy at retail, which suggests it should be a universal system.
It seems like people are focusing on the things Sony will have, and are missing out on the main point of the story
"I have no idea what Xfire’s licensing costs are, but whatever it is, it’s not free – Sony lost that opportunity. And that means publishers have to decide whether to spend extra dollars, effort, and time in an era when game costs are already spiraling higher and higher."
Tony Hawk Project 8 will have no rumble or online gameplay, whereas the 360 version will. The reason 360 games are integrating online functionality left and right is because Live is a good, cheap, unified system. The danger is not that the PS3 won’t have a buddy list. It’s that PS3 ports will be lacking in online features or supported by in-game ads, or that online focused games will go to 360 and avoid the PS3. There is no way that making it more difficult and expensive for developers to integrate online play is a good thing.
In short, the PS3 will have a service like Live Silver for free, but there will be costs for online multiplayer. The question is, who pays them?
It’s true that if developers want to implement online in a PS3 game they either have to roll their own, or use Sony’s effort, or use other middleware (which costs – I don’t think Sony is covering that cost as they do with Havok or Ageia). MS’s efforts are nicely useable, and free, on 360. Sony’s are still coming up to speed, so many third parties are going with other solutions like Xfire or Gamespy etc. at a cost.
But this cost is not a dealbreaker here. That’s not the reason Tony Hawk isn’t online. The cost of this kind of middleware is small in the scheme of things, and usually publishers ink favourable deals with these middleware vendors to cover multiple titles. If I had to guess why Tony Hawk is not online, I’d say it was scheduling alone. Call of Duty 3 is another Activision title using the same middleware that Tony Hawk’s developer uses, and it will be online on PS3.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/21/xbox-360-hd-dvd-playback-maximum-1080i-via-component-1080p-vga/
Xbox 360 after this fall’s software update:
[VGA - you can buy VGA to DVI [DVA] connector.]
VGA:
HD DVD – 1080p resolution and all others
DVD – Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others
Games – 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
Component:
HD DVD – 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS
DVD – Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS
Games – 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
"…Xbox 360 is just like every other HD DVD and Blu-ray player on the market, but you wouldn’t know that by reading Microsoft’s press releases yesterday. If you ran out and bought a 1080p HDTV yesterday don’t return it just yet, you should be able to get equal picture quality to 1080p if your TV processes the incoming signal correctly, and if it supports 1080p via component you can still play upconverted and native-1080p games ."
VGA to DVI costs ~10$
Full 6ft ready VGA-DVI cable ~25$
http://www.datapro.net/products/1145.html
http://www.lindy.com/us/productfolder/04/41223/index.php
Look girls Sony promised a better online service than XBOX Live. I recall at E3 something about all my dreams and more. Now we find out that the game developers will patch together a plethora of different PC match maker programmes together in an attempt to outdo Xbox live. Now I have used both PC based clients like Gamespy and Xfire and I have used XBOX live and I assure any of you unintiated that for the easy of use of XBox Live I’d pay the $10 (NZ) any day of the week. Who can honestly say this isn’t true? It’s flawless and if the PS3 mishmash is better I’ll eat my hat. When are you brainwashed playstation wannabies going to realise that Sony just lies to you constantly because if they’d told you in May that there would only be 500,000 PS3s available in November, that it would cost $600 and that online play would be delivered via third party programmes and not included in all games on launch you would have all bought an XBOX360 back in may. It is simple game theory. In a non repeating game you lie because there are no repercussions. So do yourselves a favour and buy the XBOX360 because it has earned it. Regardless of what the PS3 is the XBOX360 is a console that is very difficult to critique. Ozy if you work for MS kudos on a great piece of Hardware and an even better OS.
Sony either promises or appears to promise a lot of things, and they don’t always deliver (in particular, the more visionary something sounds, the less likely it is to happen). Even those who are the strongest advocates of Sony and the Playstation brand admit that, and I think that they scale their expectations accordingly.
PS3 certainly has something that’s unified, but my understanding of this entire Xfire thing is that it’s a secondary login. So for each game that supports it, you’re going to have to enter your Xfire login info at least once (hopefully not more than that).
The kind of weird thing is that I think that the Xfire support on PS3 will only have limited features: Friend Tracker and Xfire In-Game. So no PC/PS3 voice-chat (at least via this service, although that’s not entirely clear to me), no One-click join (you have to change discs on PS3), and presumably the games will feature their own server browsers.
The really interesting thing is that it sounds like, this spring, Vista/360 live support is going to have these main features that Xfire on PS3 (may) lack. You’ll be able to voice chat, you hopefully will be able to use cross platform video chat, you can do invites and instant join for games you both own…it’s like they left out the advanced, competitive features that this software really should be delivering, and on 360, all those 360/vista interactivity features will be universally supported…
Xfire just seems to be too little too late. Microsoft really is way out in front on this stuff, and they have the ability to develop in house and roll out this type of thing on their own schedule, particularly since these features are built into the dashboard layer, instead of into individual games.
Elliot – Sony hasn’t said anything about how they think PS3 Online will compare to Live, as far as I know.
Anyway, this article put up by Eurogamer today might shed a whole lot more light on how it’s all going to work. Phil Harrison met with some media in the UK to demo and show off the PS3’s online features.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=68677&page=1
Key points:
Universal login.
Multiple user accounts per console. Two types – Master and Associate accounts. The latter can be used for kids, allowing the Master account (i.e. a parent) to control things like content access and expenditure online.
Universal ‘Wallet’. All of your transactions on the network will be spent for through this. The system won’t hide the cost of these transactions behind points like Live or Wii’s service – prices will be displayed in your local currency.
The service is free, and there aren’t multiple tiers. The only things you’ll pay for are premium content/downloads and subscriptions to things like MMOs.
Pop-up notifications for messages received and friend’s list events (e.g. if someone comes online etc.). These will pop up as an overlay while in-game. Currently you can’t respond directly to pop-up messages, though they don’t clarify totally if you can or cannot then go into your friends list using the ‘PS’ button and respond from there. But either way, direct response functionality is likely via an OS update apparently.
The Playstation Store – all content on the network will be accessible via this, including third party stuff. Games can use skins to provide their own unique look and feel for an internal representation of the store aswell, accessed within the game. Eurogamer seemed very impressed by it. It will apparently allow for the download of PS1/PS2 and even PSP games!
Voice/video/text chat are all in there already.
Hit the link for more.
From the company that said
1080p was impossible
to
We have it to.
Geeze MS, you really are pathetic.
I don’t know Ozy, that eurogamer article makes the PS3 online service look pretty darn good. And FREE. So how much longer ’til LIVE Gold is free too?
WoW is compatible with Xfire. Maybe that’s what derived this Ozymundias MS employee to rush and post such a thing about SOE’s approach to X-fire. Must be fear running through MS’ offices right now of losing WOW exclusively to PS3.
To be honest, you guys deserve it for charging so much for accessories that total my 360 purchase all the way upto the 60GB PS3 price. Funny thing is, PS3 has them for free, so it’s a real shame 360 touts itself to be the cheaper console when effectively and practically they are both the same in price when the real life scenarios of a consumer come into picture.
From the Eurogamer article there seems negligible difference between Live and the PS3 network. The only concern could possibly be stability issues where Live has been going strong for awhile now, but chances of that are probably low.
Sony seems to have a good system and we’ll see if it actually works come November.
My guess is that if Sony’s software isn’t as good as xbox live they will quickly work to update and make the software cometitive as quickly as possible.
It’s going to be pretty darn good out of the Box and the limited launch will give them time to work out the kinks.
Sony will have to concentre on the software because I have a sneaking suspiction that it will tie in an iTunes type store at some point. That will provide the cash stream to keep the service free. With the Sony movie and music library they could provide some real content. Even if most people don’t use it a person would need to buy a movie or so every 3 months to make the leap.
Honestly MS could make live free also by taking a cut in each microtransaction.
It’s going to be a weird culture clash in the next few months. Sony makes content, Microsoft make programs and Nintendo makes games hardware.
Each company is branching into the others strong points,head on.
All your negative assertions are wrong.
Take a look at Major Nelson’s blog.
The service is free, feature similar to xbox live a single profile to keep track of all your info and a "better" store than marketplace.
I also read that the xFire interface is free for devs so no additional cost there.
Sony may be late to the game but that doesn’t seem to matter. They payed attention to the Xbox Live, iTunes store and the rumblings of gamers on the net and designed a good service.
PLASYSTAION3 is to Sony as Vista is to Microsoft.
It doesn’t matter who came up with it, all the good ideas are going into Vista, same as the PS3.
Ozymandias, judging from recent Playstation Network Platform (PNP) info, I would have to say that you’re plain wrong. Your did not seem to have any accurate PNP info/understanding, and just publish what you want/hope PNP will become. That’s a pretty poor way to build your credibility on the Internet.
tell us, ozymandias ? how does this FUD’ding work ?
do you get payed for every other site that posts, icluding all the sites that debunk the mindrot you call your ‘articles’? Or only the ones that actually pas your crap off as news ?
Do you have a criterium of FUD articles you have to reach on a yearly basis ?
You see i have a very lively imagination aswell, and getting payed to spread around crap sounds like a dream to me.
Everyone has an opinion. Ozymandias can’t help the fact that the PS3 fans don’t like it. Flaming someone is not the way to respond to the article. Structuring a well balanced counter to some of the points are. It just makes the PS3 people look like they are all angry because they have yet to see their beloved console by their television.
Passing-Thru
Do you have an accurate "PNP info/understanding"? If you do, then explain why you think it is wrong. Don’t just say it is. Counter.
Sunking
Why is it crap? Explain. Counter. See above example given for Passing-Thru.
Flaming without any proof or counters to the points stated in the article is not helping anyone. Its just hurting yourself….
ozy you lose all your cred for the simple fact that u make a blog saying how pointless 1080p is.. lol then your company announces it as a "secret feature" for movies and games
bottom line stop hating on sony.. it just proves how weak and desperate MS is…. yall would say anything to try and damage sonys image
yall should read these comments if they havent been posted all ready reguarding this blog from sony
h ttp://stationblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/12/comments-on-the-ps3%e2%80%99s-network-platform/
1080P is a pointless feature the only reason it will be included in the next update is because Sony successfully brainwashed the market into thinking you need 1080p and HDMI. I’m not going to explain to morons why…
Never mind Sony’s online offering, you need to get more solid 3rd party support for XBL. I’m sick of slipping a new 3rd party game only to discover the live features border on retarded. I don’t care if you have to write the component yourself. At the very least do it for the big 3rd party games. Gears Of War Hint Hint.
"Everyone has an opinion."
True, but there’s having an opinion, and then there’s just being factually incorrect. Ozy, unfortunately, didn’t check his facts with this post (e.g. Xfire costing money, its role etc.). And there’s a bit of a pattern emerging re. what Ozy posts and what is actually the case, or what turns out to be the case subsequently. And of course, what he posts is perpetually PS3-negative, as one would expect from a MS employee. When you add that all up together, certain things do come to mind – like credibility, and FUD etc. It’s only natural.
RE: PS3 Online being Supported by Xfire… Not as Cool as it Seems
News on the web today is that Xfire is suing GameSpy for how their GameSpy Comrade "Buddy Sync" feature
RE: PS3 Online being Supported by Xfire… Not as Cool as it Seems
Had an opportunity to spend the long weekend with a Japanese Playstation 3 (60 GB Pro SKU), and wanted