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Sep 5 / Ozymandias

Thoughts on Wii Gameplay/Controller Footage from Leipzig

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Saw some IGN footage showing off Wii games being played with the controller in Leipzig. Think most of you have seen it already, but just wanted to make sure. I wrote earlier about being impressed by the Wii controller, but I was also concerned about the inherent latency in that controller when used as a pointer (such as for FPS games). Unfortunately, the demo video doesn’t allay that concern.

Before anyone thinks I’m down on Wii, I should make clear that the video does show plenty of good playability. I’ll definitely be buying one of these day one, especially for games the controller seems ideally suited for: soccer, baseball, Mario Galaxy, that sort of thing. It’s the FPS sort of games that look to be frustrating.

Take a look at the 14:35 or 16:20 minute marks in the video. You’ll see a demonstration of Red Steel, and how hard aiming is. You can see just how hard it is it hit anything, especially as the pointer is doing dual-duty and being used to turn the camera and aim at the same time. The presenter (Fran?) suggests it may be because he’s too close to the TV, but I had the same issues at E3, even at the recommended six foot mark. At this point my opinion is that the ~1/4 second latency is simply inherent at the hardware level and not something you can code around.

Graphically the games look pretty good – Gamecube quality, which isn’t too shabby. There are a few points in the Red Steel demo that are Gamecube+, such as light streaming through bullet holes and some of the outdoor environments. Pretty much what I think most people expect, and sufficient for the likely price point. ($249 is my prediction.)

All in all, I’m pretty excited about Wii for games that are suited to the controller. Sadly, it appears “aiming” titles like FPSes don’t fall into that category. Guess we’ll all find out this Fall.

Related posts:

  1. PS360 Controller
  2. Comments on Wii Controller / Latency
  3. [Edit] Nintendo E3 2007 Keynote Thoughts
  4. Nintendo Wii at $249 Good…
  5. Fair’s Fair – Thoughts on Wii

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  • Porktree

    FPS, shmePS – I want to sword fight :)  Which I’d imagine shows the same latency issue :(  Has this been mentioned anywhere else?

  • Porktree

    Are you on crack? I just watched Fran’s whole vid and didn’t see any evidence of latency.  From swordfighting to shooting balloons, it seemed awfully smooooth to me. And why would there be latency?  My old famicon came with a gun (duckhunt) and there wasn’t any latency there, sure it was cabled, but the wireless connection has as much bandwidth as those old wired controllers on the 8bit machine.  You have made me sad Ozy.

  • Ozymandias

    Take a look at the 14:35 and 16:20 marks – you can see the latency in the aiming, and how he "oversteers."

    I do think people have seen this, but it’s a tricky thing to describe. Some of the E3 descriptions I read mentioned early controllers, or challenges with aiming, or needing to add controller tuning to the game. I think these all are different ways of describing the problem.

    No matter – this is just my opinion, and I’m sure everyone will have their own when they get their hands on the Wii. But I’m willing to bet everyone has the same problems aiming. :(

  • PhillyRampage

    I definitely saw those things you mentioned. If it’s not more accurate and I don’t think it makes it any more fun, then what’s the point?

    I’m not really sold on the Wii, but I really would like to try it though.

  • Chemical O

    Im with you on this one Ozy, though the wii has potential, Im skeptical about its ability when in comes to FPS.  On the video the user seemed to have some problems, and I did not buy the whole "distance" thing either.  Im starting to think maybe I will hold off on a wii till I try one, or till developers fully adapt to it.  Plus the game I most want is Twilight Princess, which I will probably just get for the gamecube I already own.  

  • AnubisGOJ

    I played the Wii at E3 and can attest to the latency issue. It was an experience akin to me using a mouse for the first time. I kept trying to roll and roll to get the cursor to move. In time, I learned to adapt.

    With the Wii controller, I found myself overcompensating. Maybe it was lag, maybe it was me.

    Hopefully Nintendo can polish the experience- but keep in mind that the Wii is not intuitive- nor will the mainstream grasp its potential easily.

  • fritzilla

    I saw the lag he was talking about.  I also saw a lot of oversteering.

    Shame.  The first game in particular looked very hard to control.  Watch him fiddle with the tank.  He can’t get it to go in any direction, crashes into trees, other tanks, etc…  

    Not to mention, most of the moves look like they may get tiring over time.  Like the jerking up to jump.  Will that affect the finer tuned actions you are trying to do when you are also jerking your controller up?  

    I don’t think the Wii is for me after all.

    fritzilla

  • http://xiinet.com ODLdragonjoe

    "Hopefully Nintendo can polish the experience- but keep in mind that the Wii is not intuitive- nor will the mainstream grasp its potential easily."

    That’s something that scares me. If the mainstream can’t get this control scheme right from the get go, hasn’t Nintendo failed at what they’re trying to do? I’ll find out when I have my Wii-lease day party. Most of my friends are non-gamers, or barely mainstream gamers. They’ll let me know if it’s hard or not.

  • Kypdurron5

    I completely agree with your post…I think you’re right on target.  I noticed the same things, and have the same concerns.  The fact is that we are so used to mice without any sort of latency that any kind of latency in a video game pointing device will feel clumsy.  Perhaps you’re right, maybe the graphics do fall in the Gamecube+ range, but after playing titles like F.E.A.R. and Oblivion I must say the graphics just aren’t good enough for me.  I understand why Nintendo would focus on "fun" rather than super-technology; I love my PSP but every time I play my brother-in-law’s DS lite I find that it’s just more fun.  I don’t see this as being true for gaming consoles though.  I was half-way through Final Fantasy 9 when I bought my PS2, and after playing PS2 games I just couldn’t stand to go back and play with PS1 graphics.  I think the same will hold true for the Wii.  It looks cool now, but once we’ve made the complete transition to the Xbox360-PS3-VistaDX10 era, I just don’t see any way for the Wii to be competitive in the US market.  This is especially true with the addition of Marketplace arcade games on the Xbox 360 and whatever Sony comes up with.  I think these will take the place of the kind of games the Wii is aiming for.  None of us can comment on the PS3 motion controller because we haven’t used it…but it simply must be better than what the Wii is offering.  

  • MarkS

    I just don’t get all the ‘buzz’ around the Wee. True, I’ve not played it and my opinion may change after I do but I see it in the same way as the Eye Toy, which was fun for a few days and then got packed away never to see the light of day again.

    How long before people get tired, both physically and mentally, of waving their arms around and then plug in the standard controller at which point you have to ask yourself why you bought it in the first place.

  • Matt

    If you are going to give a console negative impressions in your blog, why do you feel the need to candy coat your observations?

    Your posts feel a little too much like you are implicitly declaring the genres that the Wii should avoid.

    FPS are one of the ideal genres for this controller. The "latency" seems to not be a fault of the mechanics of the system but the fault of the user. This is understandable given the alien nature of this new controller.

  • http://nintendowii.geekyblogs.com Andy Carroll

    Nintendo are releasing a ‘standard’ controller for the Wii anyway aren’t they? It is feasible that many ‘hardcore’ gamers will go back to that rather than jump around the living room waving their arms about on longer gaming sessions. I always envisaged that the Wii controller is great for family gaming, but less appealing for a solo gaming session, I could be wrong though.

    In my experience none of the consoles have ever been any good at FPS games. Using a mouse and keyboard on a PC is far better.

  • ry

    The main stream isn’t going to play games like Red Steel. Nor BWii. These are not games your mother is going to want to play. Non gamers will be into crap like Wii Sports, WarioWare, new brainage things, puzzle games, texas hold’em type stuff.

  • Ozymandias

    Re: "If you are going to give a console negative impressions in your blog, why do you feel the need to candy coat your observations?"

    I’m curious where you think I might be candy-coating an impression?

    All I’ve said is that based on my personal experience and this most recent video, games that use the wand as an aiming device ("FPS games") seem as though they will be frustrating to control. I went on to say that other genres do seem more suited to the Wii’s unique controller, and that I’d be buying one day 1.

    Just not sure where the candy-coating is vs. opinion?

  • RaZoRsharp1987

    Eh Ozy, You know the 360 has usb keyboard compatibility, what are the chances i can play rts games in the future with a mouse and keyboard, it will draw more fps and rts games esp after success of lotr, so why not, or maybe a mouse as a thumbstick replacement for aiming and a 360 button board with normal controls for the other hand, ive been waiting for a console to use a mouse properly for ages.

  • BladestarX

    I agree with this post. Also, ozy I suggest you ignore some of the people posting (i.e. Porktree). The moment I read, "My old famicon came with a gun (duckhunt) and there wasn’t any latency there" I skipped everything else. This is not about putting the wii down it’s about stating the obvious. If you do not like that, go to the official Nintendo’s site.

    I will be buying the wii simply because of the virtual console, but I’m also concerned about the wiimote. I believe the wii should come with an alternative controller or something that will not required constant movement, have plenty of rooms to play it. I will give you an example, I have a 360 and a small screen in the back seat so my kids and friends can play while we travel; try that with the wii. Where the heck are you going to find the 6 feet?

    While I think the wiimote is innovative, it is also limited to what it was designed for; therefore it will have issue since it restricts which games can be made, how you play it, and where you play it.

  • Bruce

    Maybe I’m being too simplistic in my view, but in my opinion latency issues on a video-game controller is completely unacceptable.

    An issue like that could turn a real-time game from brilliant fun to a frustrating experience that leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

    For example, after trialling many arcade games on my Del Axim X51v PDA, I decided it simply didn’t matter how impressive the graphics (or sound were) -a PDA simply does not have an appropriate interface for arcade games -It suits games like Suduko and Chess, but real-time action?  Forget it.

  • fritzilla

    Also, is something truly intuitive if the person demoing it constantly tells you "it’s so intuitive…see…it’s intuitive"

    fritzilla

  • imaginedbug

    It seemed as if moving forward and strafing were done using the nunchuck (the ball with the analog stick) while turning was done by "physically" turning the camera using the Wii-mote (acting as the 360′s right analog stick). If I saw that correctly, the biggest problem of the game (red steel) would be that you’d often get hit/shot/killed before seeing who did it simply because you hadn’t looked around the corner yet.

    Maybe if strafing was taken out of the game, or made as a combination "button + analog stick", you could turn with the analog stick and keep the Wii-mote solely for aiming. Seems like an easy enough solution to me.

  • http://ozymandias.com/archive/2007/05/07/Anyone-Still-Playing-their-Wii_3F00_.aspx Ozymandias

    RE: Thoughts on Wii Gameplay/Controller Footage from Leipzig

    Was just talking with a good friend this weekend about the Wii. He’s been looking to buy one for the