Jul 24 / Ozymandias

Welcome Loraan to Ozymandias!

Just wanted to introduce you guys to a good friend of mine, Loraan, who I used to work with years back. Loraan came up to Seattle this weekend to hang out, and as we often do, we ended up chatting about games and the game industry. The interesting thing about Loraan is that I’ve used him for years as a touchstone for the “lost” or alienated gamers in the industry. In my mind these lost gamers are people who love games, used to play at least somewhat regularly, but have gotten frustrated with clichés and inevitable problems in game designs. One example might simply be called “approachability,” or making the game easy to pick up, play, and eventually, finish (which doesn’t necessarily mean dumbing it down). Another might be the repeated use of difficult or repetitive Boss Creatures, and the frustration (and game-quitting) mentality they engender. Another might just be poor story design, clichéd plots, or just bad writing overall.

These (and many other issues) all cause people to lose interest in playing games. This isn’t a good thing for you and the industry. Ever gamer we lose means fewer sales for the industry, which in turn reduces the amount of money available to invest in game quality, technology, and properties. In addition, there’s the personal aspect in that every one of those gamers who drops out who is a personal friend reduces the number of people you might want to spend time playing games with. That’s a drag on online communities as well.

What I’ve found interesting over the years is that Loraan is the sort of person who wants to play, starts many of the games we all love (on multiple platforms), but ends up getting frustrated and never finishing… and it’s often for the same reasons each and every time. I’ll state that I finish more games than Loraan only because my pain threshold is probably higher (as you might expect, as it’s also part of my job). However, I completely agree with a lot of the reasons he’s highlighted in the past that are issues to him, and I thought his thoughts on the topic might drive some good conversation and perhaps might even spark a few ideas in the industry.

Think of Loraan as a guest writer. We’re not sure how often he’ll be able to post, but I’m hoping we’ll see something once or twice a week, and I’m sure we’ll see his thoughts in comments as well. Please feel free to jump in and give your thoughts. My hope is to drive some constructive conversations to drive us forward. We look forward to hearing from you!

Kenny

I personally love games but never finish any for a few reasons.

1. Games are way too Long!

2. Most games do not make you care enough about the characters to want to know what happens to them. There is absolutely NO emotional attachment to anything in a video game.

3. Games are made for hardcode users only.
http://spaces.msn.com/feelz-good/ Nick, Feelz Good

I’ll admit I’m the same way. The last game that I finished was Gun, but there were some side missions and such I didn’t finish. I can’t think of another game I’ve finished.
Ozymandias

It’s interesting Kenny says games are "way too long". I personally agree, but there seems to be a vocal group of people out there who complain that games are getting shorter. Most recently I saw some reviews commenting that Prey’s single-player experience was too short, but I’m still ploughing through it and feel like I’d be happy to wrap it up soon.

It might be just as simple as those who have a lot of activities outside of gaming are the ones who prefer shorter games. They want to play, they want to finish, but they also want to get out in the sun when it’s out (never something to assume in Seattle!)
WiNG

Games length depends a lot on how much you like them methinks. I finished Oblivion recently and I found it quite short (and I made every mission I found out, for a total of almost 70 hours of play) while I considered Heroes of M & M 5 to be way too long having spent less time on it. Anyway, any EA game is ridiculous long and repetitive for me so I try to avoid them as much as possible

Btw, nice new layout in the site Ozymandias, and wellcome Loraan
http://blog.godshell.com XenoPhage

I would agree that there are games that are just way too long, but then there are games with a decent length and plenty of content to optionally make them longer (ala Final Fantasy).. I’m more interested in an engaging game that continues to interest me as I play it. Many of the games that I play don’t get finished because I just don’t have the time to devote to them.

This is an area where I think the PSP excels. The ability to simply turn off the device mid-game and come back later is incredible. Of course, depending on where you stop, you may need a few second of "what the …" to figure out what’s going on.. *grin*

I like longer games, but then, I also like RPGs which tend towards a longer user experience. I would like to see a little more variety though.. Constant monster encounters for purely level grinding reasons starts to wear after a while…

BTW, I’m pretty impressed with this site.. I came across it accidentally and I’ve since added it to my RSS watch list.. You definitely seem to lean more towards MS stuff (duh, you work there), but the insights are valuable.. :)
BrokenSymmetry

I completely agree with the remarks of Ozymandias in these comments: Whenever a game is released that is short (less than 10 hours) and/or easy, it gets really negative points on these issues in most reviews, whereas these kind of games may be perfect for gamers outside of the "hardcore".

As is the case with almost all gamers I know, I finish less than half of the games I buy, simply because there always is a point in most games where they’re simply not fun anymore, and frustration gets the upper hand.

Some games I have finished in recent years:

- Prince of Perisa: Sands of Time: Very gentle difficulty curve, pretty short, and no "game over" deaths that throw you out of the game. Note that Warrior Within reversed all these things, and with that became a terrible game to play.

- All Bioware games (KOTOR, Jade Empire). Long games, but great story that makes you want to finish the game, and a game difficulty that can be adjusted at any time.

- Resident Evil 4. A great difficulty system, that automatically lowers the difficulty somewhat if you die a few times.
Ozymandias

I just thought the games BrokenSymmetry listed as ones he finished were pretty interesting as I also finished every one of them (except for Resident Evil, which I didn’t get into because I’m not a big fan of horror games myself). Prince of Persia is one that pops in particular because I finished it in spite of some maddeningly difficult fights toward the end while Loraan didn’t. I also finished KOTOR and Jade, but I’m not sure whether he did or not.

I also agree with XenoPhage as to longer games like Final Fantasy being worth the time/effort. I sort of bunch it into the same "RPG" pile as KOTOR, Jade, and Oblivion. Good story, huge world to explore, and lots of save points.
Kenny

I dont play games for the satisfaction of finishing it. I play games for an escape, or a way to take a break from the daily grind. I dont have the time to put 3 or 4 hours a session when i play a game, i like to play for 30 minutes, get out, then get back to my life. I NEVER pay attention to a reviewer that criticizes a game being too short, that reviewer most likely gets paid to play games. So i take that with a grain of salt.

In my opinion here are some things that game designers should do to bring the "casual gamer" back to the hard core games.

1. Character Development, make us want to see what happens to the character or story we are playing thru

2. God mode. Yes I know this is heresy but sometimes as a casual gamer, i like playing games just to enjoy the game enviroment (graphics, sound, atmosphere -especially on the hi-def 360) and i cant really do that if i am just running around trying not to die.

3. Episodic Content. Make the inital game much shorter, lower the price, and release optional episodes. Keep these episodes short and sweet, and make the ending of these episodes rewarding enough so the user wants to finish it to see how the episode ends. You can make us care about the characters by releasing 15-30 minute cgi quality cut scenes (which we can optionally download from live for free – heck even include advertising in these "movies" to help cover the cost in of developing them). These Cut-Scenes can help set up story and make us care about the characters in the game without burdending the gamer with this if all they want to do is play. Then after all the epiodes are released on live you can stitch together all the movies into a complete dvd and see the dvd for 9.99 at walmart .

I just think the game design industry is stuck in a rut, and needs to try some radical new ideas to get people to take this industry more serioulsy…And no i dont think a new controller is answer, if anything the Wii just sends us back 10 years, making all video gamers look even more geekish jumping around waving at the tv
HcC

I completely agree with sands of time. I finished that game and loved it.

The game that has dissapointed me the most was Fable. It had the potential to be outstanding, I was really into it and there seemed like there was more to do, then it just kind of ends. By the time I had gotten better weapons and whatnot, the final boss took me 3 minutes to defeat. I hope they remedy that in the second installment.

There was one game called Future Tactics: The uprising for xbox that was really fun. That was the last game I’ve finished and had a blast. It left me wanting more and I think I’ll even play it again.

Though I love the graphics and everything, I’ve stopped Call of duty 2 on the last campaign. I’m finding it way too repetitive, getting blown up by nades and tanks over and over is not fun. It’s like playing multiplayer against someone who’s cheap and uses the same annoying methods over and over.

I think that there is always going to be a range of likes and dislikes about the length of a game. Some people will enjoy a specific environment and character so much that they just want more, and then have to wait forever for a sequel, others will get sick of it half way through. So maybe a faster response time for sequels of popular games would be good.
Dobie

I think its interesting that Prince of Persia: Sands of Time keeps coming up. I too thought that game was a total gem of the last generation. Perfect length, clever puzzles, and just a hint of the original. All in all, I got completely through it, and it left me wanting a little bit more. A mark of a quality game IMO. I agree that the sequel was a big disappointment. All that "edgy" gothic angst stuff isn’t what made the original so compelling.

I’d like to see the learning curve go down for most games. I don’t want to do a tutorial and learn how a particular game works… I just want to PLAY! Perhaps thats why I tend to return to (and repeatedly play) the "classic" compilations like Mega Man Anniversary Collection, and passs on the huge, 100 hour investment titles like Oblivion. I bought Oblivion… I even enjoyed it. But I put it down far before I actually accomplished anything in the game. I hardly made it out of the main town. Whereas I can pick up Mega Man, play a couple of levels, and come back to it a week later without losing my spot or wondering what I was doing.

That’s where Xbox Arcade really shines. The games are all instantly accessible, and great for solo or group play. I donload nearly every one of them. Geometry Wars is a shining example of how gameplay can carry a title. The music and style are great, but the game is fun and challenging to boot.
HcC

"That’s where Xbox Arcade really shines."

definately. I’m #70 in the world at marble blast ultra. hahaha.
BrokenSymmetry

Coincidence or not, but for me the two "perfect" games of the last generation (both for casual and for hardcore gamers), were both released in november 2003, and both created by Ubisoft:

- Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

- Beyond Good & Evil

Both games were around 10 hours, had great character and story, and a very gentle difficulty curve. Unfortunately, both games didn’t do well in sales (at least not initially for Sands of Time). The two PoP sequels didn’t recapture the magic, and I’m still hoping for that Beyond Good & Evil sequel!
WiNG

Yep, I forgot Beyond Good and Evil myself. It was a real nice game and I am looking forward for the sequel as long as they do not lose their path making it a different game. Prince of Persia Sands of Time was a very nice game and probably one of the few game remakes that actually made sense. People tend to think Warrior Within and the Two Thrones were not to the expectations, but I really think WW was a very good game actually (although it would have been considered better if it wasn’t titled Prince of Persia). Ironically enough, neither of those games had blasting graphics or super developed positional audio effects, but a well developed gameplay. Even now in the HD era those games would still work and that should tell quite a few developers how to develop a good game rather than just enhancing graphics over and over again
imaginedbug

Uhm so welcome Loraan!

Games often *are* too short. To get back to Ozymandias’ statement that he’s still ploughing through Prey: I’m far from a hardcore gamer and generally stink at shooters, yet I finished Prey in approx. 6 hours. For me that’s proof it’s short.

Not to mention that there’s no reason to play through the whole thing on "hard" just for the few APs you can get, and the multi-player part is just like Quake’s run & gun gameplay (either you love it or you hate it).

Now a game like Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter really rocked. It was difficult at times, but doable. The story stunk but the gameplay was great. And to top it off the multi-player is awesome (if you can get into a game).

Even XBLA games aren’t always worth their money. Cloning Clyde is way too short, with 34 levels (24 "normal" levels + 10 challenge levels) each taking between 2 and 15 minutes you can breeze through within two days. And again, no reason to play the levels again.
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